shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Feb 13, 2020 16:07:57 GMT
A horrible topic, for sure, but one I haven't seen mentioned anywhere in forums or in the lore - has it ever been confirmed whether the different sentient races can interbreed? and beyond all of the disgusting implications this brings, can they actually create viable offsprings?
Biology is a bit of an odd topic in the IK, since humans were pretty much created from menoth's footsteps, Dwarves were handcrafted by their gods, and Trolls, Ogres, Gobbers and Farrow were either created by Dhunia or sort of popped out of her armpit grease, Gators were probably created by Kossk or the Wurm, Tharn are just humans who drank too much kool-aid, Elves were made by their own gods and Skorne are just atheist elves.
So, how does it all work? can everyone interbreed? no one? can you only breed with beings created by the same god? if so, would that means gators and tharn can woohoo, since they both carry the Wurm's essence? can trollbloods breed with Pygs?
I think it's also more or less confirmed smaller Farrow can breed with the larger, mutated types?
For the record, I'm only asking all of this because I want to know whether I can reasonably use orc minis in IKRPG campaigns, but once you stare into the abyss it's too late to turn back.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
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Post by bacon on Feb 13, 2020 16:35:16 GMT
As far as I know they've never mentioned interbreeding between the different races. Im checking the seacat compilation on pp's main forums right now, I'll get back to you if I find anything.
Your best bet might be to either just use them as proxies or if it fits your story make them some kind of experiment.
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Post by charlzheimer on Feb 13, 2020 16:36:38 GMT
besides the cultural implication because it has been brought up in the pass.
none of the races are compatible with one and another.
back in the old DnD days they made a point of it how all races just...don't mix.
and interracial couples are often seen as...WEIRD.
not that beeing weird is discouraged but..social stigma and all that.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
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Post by bacon on Feb 13, 2020 16:47:11 GMT
Found something. "The differences between humans and elves is more akin to the situation with horses and donkeys, which are different species but which can theoretically produce viable offspring (mules and hinnies), but which are not themselves sustainable. There are many other factors as well, most of them social/cultural, which makes these sorts of pairing exceptionally rare in the first place. Then there are additional complications related to Iosan infertility and then additional issues with the pregnancies (stillbirths being more common) and higher chance of death on childbirth, which altogether make half-elves exceptionally rare. Even if elves and humans were in harmonious accord and relationships between them extremely common, there would still be very few half-elves in our setting. As it is, with the cultural complications, there are almost none. *** In response to "Wouldn't alchemical medicines help with this? Especially with all the battlefield medicines that are no doubt being developed as a result of the current war?" Most battlefield medicines are focused on clotting wounds and preventing death from shock. Perhaps, theoretically, if this was a problem anyone was working on, for any perceived need, someone could try to solve the stillbirth problem with alchemy. But the main point is, humans and elves almost never get in such a relationship, and on the one in a million chance that it happens, they probably don't experience pregnancy. So no, there has been no need for anyone to invest any effort in "solving" this problem. Most alchemists have many more pressing things to do with their time. The only place where there seems to be an driving need to figure out how to create a bunch of half-elves is generally in the IK RPG forum, not in the setting itself. Elves have enough to worry about related to trying to have more healthy children with members of their own species." privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?77295-Doug-Seacat-on/page2The post is #77 |
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shmeep
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Post by shmeep on Feb 13, 2020 18:30:59 GMT
Funny you should mention that, humans x elves was actually the only pairing that wasn't on my mind at all. Interesting to see Seacat using the horses and donkeys analogy, I've actually seen it used before in a discussion about how to handle the whole issue of the stock fantasy races basically being differently proportioned humans.
The number of elves that actually live among humans or other non-elf populations is pretty much double or even single digits, if I remember correctly from the lore, so statistically there's really no reason for mingling to happen, but Cygnar has large populations of Trolls and Gobbers, and some Ogres in it, so it really isn't a stretch to assume at least some dumb mofo will try to get funky.
Speaking of which, Arkadius is still out there and doing lord knows what, he seems exactly like the kind of guy who'd want to test something like this out. Not even for any purpose, just to flex on his former colleagues.
What I had in mind was specifically the savage races - whether Tharn are still technically human, and can humans breed with Dwarves, Ogres, and Gobbers, and out of a sick sense of curiosity, Trolls, Farrow and Gators. Seacat's answer makes me assume the answer to everything but Tharn is no viable offspring, and nonviable offspring -maybe- with Dwarves Ogres and Gobbers. (I thought to shorten it to an acronym, but that would've led to something truly vile.)
This entire train of thought came from reading a comic called Heterogenic Linguistics, in which it seems all races can create offspring together. Whether they're viable hasn't been brought up, since the only one shown so far is a child. I don't know whether I prefer fantasy world which allow all crossbreeding or none at all, but it allows for some interesting storytelling.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
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Post by bacon on Feb 13, 2020 19:10:27 GMT
While a setting where any sapient species could intermingle sounds cool, I doubt it would be the Iron Kingdoms. To make such a setting work you'd either need society to have strong consequences for it, making it uncommon, or go all in and have them so common that characters who are cross species stop sounding like Mary sues. Considering all of the complications of half elves mentioned by Seacat I doubt even less human like species like farrow or ogrun could carry viable children with humans or any other race
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thelat
Junior Strategist
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Post by thelat on Feb 13, 2020 19:39:59 GMT
I think all the sapient species in the Iron Kingdoms were directly created by deities. Compatible genetics is unlike.
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Post by Charistoph on Feb 13, 2020 21:52:54 GMT
About the only known effective "half-breeds" I can quickly identify are the Legion's Nephilim (part Nyss, part Dragon, but I'm not sure on reproductability) and the Werewolves (though, like the Tharn, they are a magical partial mutation). They don't really qualify as being part of that name, but they are as close as I can think of that are in any significant military representation.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
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Post by shmeep on Feb 13, 2020 22:02:56 GMT
About the only known effective "half-breeds" I can quickly identify are the Legion's Nephilim (part Nyss, part Dragon, but I'm not sure on reproductability) and the Werewolves (though, like the Tharn, they are a magical partial mutation). They don't really qualify as being part of that name, but they are as close as I can think of that are in any significant military representation. I wouldn't consider Warpwolves halfbreeds, they're more like an extreme mutation. Plus, if two warpwolves breed the result is a pureblood, so in a sense they're a species of their own. And Nephilim are more like blight mutations. Significant representation doesn't really matter, it's more about whether it's possible at all. I like the idea of introducing very unusual (within the setting) villains from time to time, whether it'd be a human-gobber mix, or maybe something more unorthodox like a dwarf-ogre. Speaking of trolls again, wouldn't the various -kins, trolls and dires be able to intermingle? since big cats and horses can do it, it seems feasible enough. And since both were created by Dhunia, could you imagine a blue skinned Farrow covered in rocky growth? That could make for an interesting frankensteinian opponent. You could explain the godawful sculpt on the OG Gatorman Posse by claiming it's the unholy union of a Tharn and a Gatorman. "Gator.... Do you think love can bloom, even in the Thornwood?" |
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thelat
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Post by thelat on Feb 13, 2020 22:28:08 GMT
About the only known effective "half-breeds" I can quickly identify are the Legion's Nephilim (part Nyss, part Dragon, but I'm not sure on reproductability). Nephilim are just dragonspawn that use a Nyss fetus as the body template for growth. There's nothing left of the original Nyss aside from the soul. |
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Post by Charistoph on Feb 14, 2020 2:33:51 GMT
Significant representation doesn't really matter, it's more about whether it's possible at all. I like the idea of introducing very unusual (within the setting) villains from time to time, whether it'd be a human-gobber mix, or maybe something more unorthodox like a dwarf-ogre. I only mention significant representation due to the nature of the WMH game. We might see one as a named solo, here or there, but just no general deployment of such. The rest was just pointing out the closest we had, and I totally admitted that they weren't good cases for the term. About the only known effective "half-breeds" I can quickly identify are the Legion's Nephilim (part Nyss, part Dragon, but I'm not sure on reproductability). Nephilim are just dragonspawn that use a Nyss fetus as the body template for growth. There's nothing left of the original Nyss aside from the soul. So, still "part Nyss". There is more Nyss there than in other dragonspawn, especially when up till recently, they were the only ones that could Frenzy against their Warlock and one of them can cast another's Animus. Everblight cannot make Nephilim without Nyss, so they are part of the Nephilim. Still don't know about their capacity to reproduce normally, and I don't know if Everblight even considered that as a possible route for the group. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 14, 2020 9:03:17 GMT
]So, still "part Nyss". There is more Nyss there than in other dragonspawn, especially when up till recently, they were the only ones that could Frenzy against their Warlock and one of them can cast another's Animus. Everblight cannot make Nephilim without Nyss, so they are part of the Nephilim. Still don't know about their capacity to reproduce normally, and I don't know if Everblight even considered that as a possible route for the group. I would probably still compare it more to a magically induced super mutation rather than actual evolution. Also, unlike Tharn, I don't think Nephelim can turn back, so I would think, even if possible, reproduction with regular Elves would be difficult. I would think dragon spawn are naturally sterile though, due to being created rather than born. Also, blight is actually bad for you, mkay? Even though Nephelim retain a part of the original Elven consciousness, I would think they are still mostly like other dragon spawn, and thus sterile. |
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Post by Charistoph on Feb 14, 2020 14:22:47 GMT
I would probably still compare it more to a magically induced super mutation rather than actual evolution. Also, unlike Tharn, I don't think Nephelim can turn back, so I would think, even if possible, reproduction with regular Elves would be difficult. I would think dragon spawn are naturally sterile though, due to being created rather than born. Also, blight is actually bad for you, mkay? Even though Nephelim retain a part of the original Elven consciousness, I would think they are still mostly like other dragon spawn, and thus sterile. More or less agreed on the mutation part, but it is a very grey area considering all involved. As I said earlier, I don't think it really fits the full title of half-blood, but is as close as we're going to see for a non-Character model in game. As for capacity to reproduce, I was more referencing their capacity to reproduce among themselves, and just considering a dragon's perspective. Everblight probably didn't even consider the possibility for a need for them to be produced other than as they are, so probably do not even have the equipment to reproduce on any scale or method, either with the Nyss or with each other, but I wasn't immediately dismissing the possibility that he had thought of having self-replicating dragonspawn would be efficient. |
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gupp
Junior Strategist
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Post by gupp on Feb 14, 2020 21:28:56 GMT
Herne & John had a baby called the rock ram
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Feb 15, 2020 21:22:44 GMT
It’s sort of sad to think that Aiyana and Holt will possibly never have a child, but honestly I suspect this is just to add another layer of weirdness to players that want to have a relationship in the ikrpg
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