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Post by steeltitan on Jan 31, 2020 13:49:44 GMT
Hello and welcome to my blog about my experiences on starting and playing my second Warmachine/Hordes faction: Infernals.
So, why a blog?
I found that chronicling my gameplay experiences, and in the process analyze the list, the game, etc., helps me to improve my skill level...and after the few games I played with Infernals, I realize there is a LOT to improve on. While part of our gaming group used to do this via Youtube battle reports (The Mighty Die), I have neither the time nor the motivation to go that route. I hope to share my experiences and thoughts with the Infernals community and in turn learn from other (better/more experienced/smarter/more creative) players.
Also, I'm old school and I enjoy static, retrievable information and well thought-out posts and replies...pretty much the opposite of 99% of posts on Facebook.
Who am I?
Khador has been my main and only faction for the past few years and I enjoy playing about once a week. My main opponents play Cygnar, Crucible Guard and Trollbloods but I will soon move and I don't yet know what the local scene is like there. Although I am not a tournament player, we always play 75-point Steamroller games.
What can you expect?
I will not write full battle reports but I will try to summarize the main things that happened in a game that led to a glorious victory for our otherworldly overlords...or an utter defeat...yeah...defeat...expect some defeats...I might post some photos of some games, I might not. I might also upload some photos once I finish paining some models. But mostly expect ramblings on my struggles to understand playing this faction.
The Forces of Darkness
It's Zaateroth. Yep. That's it. Everything else is up for change. Until I feel very comfortable with Zaateroth I don't intend to switch masters or likely even a second list. I keep reading that she has decent/good game into everything.
Next up: My quick experiences and thoughts on my first five games with Infernals; three against our arch enemy Flames in the Darkness, led by Stryker 2 and two games against their allies, the Trollbloods' Gunnbjorn and Madrak1.
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Post by charlzheimer on Jan 31, 2020 15:43:14 GMT
welp i'll await with baited breath.
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Post by steeltitan on Feb 2, 2020 19:31:21 GMT
GAME 1: FLAMES IN THE DARK & STRYKER 2
My first game with Infernals was against our arch enemy, a classic battle of good versus evil; Flame in the Darkness led by Stryker 2. My opponent's list consisted of two units of Precursor Knights, one unit of Vigilants and 7 Priests (3, 3, and 1 respectively). I believe Stryker's BG included Ol' Rowdy and a Lancer. Two Morrowan Archons, Alexia 2 and Gabriel Throne rounded out his list.
I used my first iteration, based on the available models at the time:
Zaateroth - Tormentor - 2x Lamenters - Foreboder
Infernal Gate
Valin Hauke The Hermit of Hengehold 2x Umbral Guardian 3x Wretch Eilish Garrity, the Occultist Saxon Orik
Max Cultists - Orin Midwinter - 3x Dark Sentinel
Max Cultists
Min Griever Swarm
This game was a few weeks ago so unfortunately I can't provide too many details. For my opponent it was also his first game with his army but when I looked across the table, I soon became worried by the sheer amount of models across from me. It was definitely nothing compared to what I had on my side of the board.
Overestimating the Infernals' ability to deal with terrain, I chose to go first, with was a bit of a pain for the rest of the game. First lesson learned: if you only have Ghost Walk to hand out once (or cycle for two in later turns), terrain is not your friend. I am very much used to playing Khador's Jaws of the Wolf where all Jacks have pathfinder.
Regardless, my opponent played cautiously and moved up slowly while I stayed outside of 10" and not giving too many juicy targets at 16". Stryker 2's feat allows every model/unit an additional 3" and basic melee attack. In combination with a run during the unit's activation, they all threaten far. While one basic melee attack might not sound like much at first, Throne can add +2 damage from Stir the Blood, the Hermit can debuff ARM, and Positive Charge adds another 2 to damage. Just those feat attacks can take out several Horrors in one go.
Committing to removing one unit in a turn, to mitigate the effect of Vengeance, just didn't seem possible. However, my opponent played too cautiously, allowing me to summon a number of Horrors over the course of the first few turns, while removing none of the table. I mainly chose to summon Desolators because I found their Anathema useful to control his movement somewhat. I also expected that the sprays would do more damage than the melee attacks of Tormentors. My Lamenters under feat did a great job, clogging up models left and right, despite the more than decent MAT in his list. He made an aggressive move with Stryker, trying to take out multiple Horrors in one swoop, pushing hard for an attrition swing. He didn't do nearly as much damage as he was hoping for.
This allowed me to, supported by rerolls from Orin and Eilish, get Black Spot on Stryker and assassinate him with the sprays from two Desolators.
Although I won the game, I did not manage to do much damage to his army, nor was I in a good place for scenario, as his units were just all over the board. Committing Stryker at this point in the game was probably still too aggressive and he probably should have been more in my face with all his stuff.
Some thoughts I took away from the game were:
1. Wow, this faction is going to take a while to get comfortable with! 2. Why does this feel like a worse version of Jaws of the Wolf (where I start with 7 Jacks instead of trying to survive long enough to come somewhere close to that number). 3. RAT 6 sprays don't hit reliably and Black Spot is useless versus Sacred Wards so yeah... 4. Lamenters under feat are fun
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Post by tontonkal on Feb 3, 2020 7:52:19 GMT
Thanks for the battle report!
Ghost walk is not an upkeep, so you can cast the spell more than once and don't have to cycle.
Once you get Lord Roget, you can also cast ghost walk for free during his activation, although he tends to die pretty quickly to summon ^^
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Post by steeltitan on Feb 4, 2020 6:40:52 GMT
Good callout on Ghost Walk. Thats exactly the kind of detail I forget when trying to manage all the variables.
Roget wasnt available at the time of my first game but he will make an appearance in my newer iterations. In the last 4 games, I typically try to have him be my 3rd turn summon depending on what my Wretches or Eilish offer in the matchup.
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Post by steeltitan on Feb 5, 2020 15:43:05 GMT
GAME 2 + 3: FLAMES IN THE DARK & STRYKER 2 I'm going to keep it a bit shorter for the next two games that I played because it's kind of a blur. Both games were against the same opponent, playing Flames Stryker 2. The only big change to his list was that he dropped one unit of knights and instead had an extra unit of Vigilants and that he was proxying 2x Thamarite Advocate. These models had the potential to cause a major headache but seeing how the game was going generally, they didn't do much apart from scoring far away flags. My list saw some minor changes after having received Roget D'Vyaros and Eilish 2 in the mail. I believed I dropped a Wretch to make room for Roget. Zaateroth - Tormentor - 2x Lamenters - Foreboder - Roget D'Vyaros Infernal Gate Valin Hauke The Hermit of Hengehold 2x Umbral Guardian 2x Wretch Eilish Garrity, the Dark Seeker Saxon Orik Max Cultists - Orin Midwinter - 3x Dark Sentinel Max Cultists Min Griever Swarm We played Recon II twice in a row because I had already shipped my zones to my new place and rectangle zones were easily crafted from some pieces of paper. Having learned his lesson from the previous game, there was no YOLO-ing with Stryker anymore and there was no holding back with everything else. In both games, he rushed up the table and feated early. I took first turn in both games. In the first game, there was no central LOS blocking terrain and no good places to put a Desolator cloud to prevent charge angles or shut down a flank for a turn. Apart from scoring my flag once and contesting his once, the game was a massacre. The flood of models prevented me from scoring and having so many hard hitting models in my face turn 2 meant I never could build up enough momentum summoning to punch back. We decided to call the game at the end of his turn 3 so we could get another game in. In the second game, there was a large forest in the middle of the table. There was also a house on his side of the left zone and a forest on his side of the right zone. This meant he had to funnel his Knights and one unit of Vigilants through fairly narrow gaps. They weren't close enough to me so I could block them off entirely but I could at least use the central forest and a Desolator cloud to block LOS to a fairly large part of my army and hold back the unit of Knights for a turn. On the other side, a couple of my Grievers tried to jam the unit of Vigilants. Spoiler alert: they are not very good at it Because the other unit of Vigilants were flanking, they could unfortunately draw LOS to the summoned Desolator and took it out. That meant I only had two Tormentors left (I summoned a Tormentor in my first turn to have another big threat on the table. In the second turn, I summoned the Desolator to block LOS and buy myself another turn before the Knights came in) and two Lamenters, one on each flank. However, this was a crucial mistake because once the lines closed in the next turn, I just didn't have enough attacks to make a meaningful impact. The game pretty much ended the same as the game before; his models flooding the zones, hitting hard and taking out models left and right while I didn't have the volume of attacks to turn the game around. I am sure I can eventually play Infernals a LOT better than what I am currently capable of but playing against Flames seems super hard. The list wants to rush you and be in your face turn two or three latest, which isn't when Infernals are at their strongest. Zaateroth's feat is supposed to delay things somewhat but the army generally has a very high MAT so has no issues hitting anything except for maybe the Lamenters. If either Rebuke or Black Spot worked, it would be a different game but my list just doesn't have the volume of attacks early game to remove enough models to not make the resulting Vengeance turn brutal. His army also poses an interesting question of "what do I kill first?". Do I commit to the Knights? Well, then I better be damn sure I kill enough because the retaliation is going to be brutal. Again, early game that seems unlikely. Do I try to kill the Archons? That aint easy either, especially from range. In the second game, I actually managed to charge both Archons with a Tormentors each. One was killed but the other Tormentor failed (odds?). Both were trivially removed by his army as a result, leaving me with Lamenters, Cultists and some solos. Or do I kill the jacks that will surely remove my Horrors if I let them charge in, after I commit to the Knights? I could rebuke or black spot the Vigilants but then I lose my arc node as a result...maybe that's not that bad considering they are the only unit that can be targeted by spells anyway. Anyway, I'm rambling...which I promised to do I think it would really help if I changed my BG and add some Horrors. This would mean I pose a larger early threat and I don't have to rely on stalling the game as much to mid/late game. But as I pondered this question, I already had another play date set, to face off against some Trollbloods...
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Post by tontonkal on Feb 5, 2020 17:22:33 GMT
Thanks for the battle reports!
Regarding the battlegroup, you can consider a list with 4 tormentors and 1 foreboder. Then summon 1 desolator, and then it will depend on the match up. At the end of turn 2, you will have 6 heavies and be in a strong position.
Losing your arcnode for a black spot or early rebuke is perfectly fine. The opponent will have to commit to kill it, especially during the feat, and you will most probably trade up :-) That said, vigilants might not be the best target... So maybe in another match up...
Against troll, wretches will be key to counter tough and healing, make sure you keep them relevant every turn
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Post by steeltitan on Feb 6, 2020 20:08:18 GMT
GAME 4: GUNNBJORN STORM OF THE NORTH
The next game I played was against one of my other regular opponents, playing Trollbloods. We had some back and forth the days before the game, about the match-ups, and we expected that his Madrak 1 list (Band of Heroes), featuring two units of Champions and a unit of Fennblades, would not fare well against my army (Black Spot pew pew and to a lesser extent Rebuke but with a Dhunian Archon in the list that is easily removed).
As such, he decided to play Gunnbjorn in Storm of the North, with the following list:
Captain Gunnbjorn - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 17 - Glacier King - PC: 35 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Bog Trog Mist Speaker - PC: 4
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 0 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
Since my last game, I had quickly ordered Great Princess Regna Gravnoy, so she was the latest addition to my list. I wanted to test my previous list against another army, before making the changes I thought about last time (i.e. bigger BG). I exchanged Saxon for Regna and took out one Dark Sentinel to free up points. I do like Saxon, just when you really need that far forward Anathema but I also like the utility Wretches bring. Maybe once Nicia is out, I will include here but she has a lot more going on than Saxon, in addition to being a advance deployed solo.
Zaateroth - Tormentor - 2x Lamenters - Foreboder - Roget D'Vyaros
Infernal Gate
Valin Hauke The Hermit of Hengehold 2x Umbral Guardian 2x Wretch Eilish Garrity, the Dark Seeker Great Princess Regna Gravnoy
Max Cultists - Orin Midwinter - 2x Dark Sentinel
Max Cultists
Min Griever Swarm
We were playing Bunkers. There was a forest on the right side of my zone, essentially protecting my flank from ambushing Bears. I deployed the gate right next to it, in the middle of my zone, thinking the forest would protect it. While writing this, I realize that forests don't block LOS to it...there you go. There was a small cloud in the middle of the board, just on my side of the flag, ideal for setting up charges and potentially contesting that flag without giving up LOS. The Troll list does have access to Eyeless Sight (or was it Guidance?) so that's something to be cautious about.
In his zone, there was a house on his left and an obstruction on the right. With a Glacier King in the list, that did provide a slightly narrow gap for his models to go but he solved that partly by moving one of unit champions around the far side of the house. There was also a wall just outside his zone, towards the centre of the table. All other terrain wasn't important in the game.
To be completely transparent, my opponent was playing on the clock and while the clock was running for me, we agreed not to enforce Death Clock. I've played games with and without DC with Infernals and I've noticed that I learn a lot less from games with. Giving yourself a few minutes more here and there, to think about your options, really helps get to grips with all the special rules and order of activation.
I believe I won the roll-off and chose to go first. The Bomber and Glacier King obviously pose some ranged threat but with their reduced threat range, I can move forward without taking too many risks. I also have both Umbrals waiting off the board just in case I make a positioning mistake...or at least that's what I tell myself because there is a big chance I would have forgotten all about them. He deployed one unit of Bears, ambushing the second. I bunch up my army, move forward, making my way around terrain while making sure nothing important is within ambushing Bear range. I'm also careful not to move into range of both deployed Bears, despite the central cloud (guidance) because I've been on the receiving end of Bears too often and they even maul a Khador heavy real good.
During the game, I again realize what a good spell Rock Wall is, especially if there is already a wall on his side of the board. My opponent exploits them really well, sneakily staying far enough behind the wall so that my 1" reach heavies can't touch him.
His deployed Bears do eventually get a charge off against a summoned Desolator but his dice weren't great and the Horror is left on a few boxes. Together with a Tormentor, I am able to remove the Bears on my turn, leaving only the Handler, who is a lot farther back.
To prevent me from charging his approaching unit of Champions, he puts down another Rock Wall. Also his Bomber is making his way across the field and he ambushes his second unit of Bears on my left flank and they run towards Regna and my other back line models. Oh, that's not great. So, I feat, run up the Lamenters to jam the front line of Champions and the Bomber. The Griever Swarm turns around and CRA into a Bear, killing it...but he toughs (***K). Little in the turn, I think I killed it regardless but I can't remember with what.
I get a chance to prox Rites of Torment and in combination with the Gate's teleport, I get a Tormentor (with Scything Touch) into the Glacier King. Despite the 4 essence and rolling well, I didn't manage to take it out...probably should have thought about applying an ARM debuff first...ow well...order of activations is hard okay! I am contesting his zone though so I'm up by one point.
After all my models did their thing and benefited from Valin's Tactician, he turns around and moves towards my table edge and makes it in melee with the other ambushing Bear. I can't have a Bear behind my lines, not with all those soft targets walking around. I didn't manage to kill it but under feat, he's sitting at DEF 16 which should be fine, without another Bear around to trigger Gang.
In his next turn, he (obviously) kills the Tormentor engaging the Glacier King. The Lamenters do their job well and cause a nice number of wasted attacks. Because of the Feat's place effect, I can move the Lamenter into his zone, contesting it yet again. That means I am ahead two points, scoring my own zone twice. Until now, nobody managed to score the flags; me because I don't want to risk my valuable solos and him because he only had very few solos in his list to begin with. The Bear missed Valin and Valin moved away.
At the beginning of my turn, I then realize I have to score three to win. My own zone is a given. If I move up Valin, I can run Zaateroth through my army and onto the flag on my far left. There isn't much I can do with the right flag. To score the middle flag, I have to remove two or three champions that are within 4". Easier said than done with Sanguine Bond. Eventually it takes me both Desolator sprays, Lamenter attacks and two Dark Sentinels to cause enough wounds to the unit to remove the contesting Champions (although I did still have some rerolls on Orin), netting the the last point for a scenario win.
Over the course of the game I summoned two Tormentors and a Desolator, sacrificing Eilish (first to go), a Wretch and Roget.
Thoughts about the game: 1) I start to see why people think Tactician on everything is super good. 2) Order of activation is a real tricky thing. I'm gonna have to work on a fixed routine to stick to, at least to establish a baseline. 3) Regna's Shrieker didn't impress me just yet. 4) Lamenters DEF is still pleasantly annoying. 5) Griever Swarms don't impress me a lot but it is very nice to have something flexible around that can just turn around and CRA something to death... 6) Playing against a list that can't completely swarm you is a much nicer experience.
Ok, that was a long one. I'll probably try to keep it a little shorter next time. Right after this game, we played another game, this time versus Madrak 1 to see if our expectation was actually correct.
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Post by charlzheimer on Feb 7, 2020 8:39:56 GMT
regna is mostly a model you take for the added armor vs shooting. her having acces to a shrieker is a bonus imho.
as for order of activation issue's. oh i feel you buddy. I FEEL you.
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Post by steeltitan on Feb 10, 2020 16:10:33 GMT
Agreed. In my updated list, I dropped a Lamenter from the BG but Regna can still summon in that second one, so that's still nice. As it stands, I still have one past game to report one. I actually have very little memory of the game so it will be a short one.
GAME 5: MADRAK 1 BAND OF HEROES
After my scenario win against Gunnbjorn, we set up for another game, rolling Recon II. My opponent changed to his Madrak 1 list, the list that we discussed before the game and would likely be a bad matchup for the Trollbloods. I used the same list as the one I used in my first game against the Trolls.
Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain - WB: +29 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Dhunian Archon - PC: 0 Stone Scribe Chronicler - PC: 4
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Trollkin Fennblades - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer - Officer & Drummer: 5 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
I can't give much of a rundown of the game because I can't really remember many specifics. My opponent learned quick from the first game and changed his game plan and approached much more aggressively. Early on, he successfully jams a Tormentor and Zaateroth, who were chilling behind a wall. Because of their 2" melee and my lack thereof that puts both models in kind of an annoying position and messes with my activation on my second turn. The Tormentor I summoned on my first turn also can't counter-charge because of the wall. Sad.
He layers his Fennblades well, forcing me to take some out here and there, triggering Vengeance, while still keeping plenty back for problematic charges. I manage to hold off part of the unit and Champions on my right flank by the Anathema (my second turn summon), just slightly less than a medium-base width away from the central house, to cover more ground. However, he outsmarts me yet again, and goes into my waiting Lamenter with his UA (he has boxes so doesn't care about the AOE). At some point I put Regna on my flag to score, knowing that she's in charge range of two Fennblades. She dies the next turn. Although I didn't need Decel, I just wasted a solo. Not good.
Even though the Champions aren't exactly rushing across the table, because...well...they slow, it takes me too long to deal with the scattered Fennblades to focus down on the much harder hitting and harder to remove Champions; one unit on each side of the house. At some point, I cast Rebuke on the Champions that are approaching my two Tormentors. I had no other way to prevent the incoming charge but as expected his Dhunian Archon just wacks one dude and the Champions charge in regardless. I think I use Black Spot at some point, to lower the DEF on the Fennblades but generally, the Desolators have a hard time really hitting much and causing significant casualties. Turns out, Trolls can actually have pretty good DEF.
Despite my feat, his army hits too accurate with a number of MAT fixers and once the Champions make it into my lines, it started going south pretty quick. At that point, he can take out my objective, score his flag and the left zone - guaranteeing him a scenario win. He does continue his turn because he felt like horribly murdering my models. He doesn't table me but needless to say, most of my impactful models are gone at this point (Horrors, Lamenters, etc.). Seeing how I didn't even manage to remove the whole unit of Fennblades, I basically didn't remove much of anything in his army. Ow, the shame...
So, while his list didn't rush me AS quickly as the Flames list (excluding the Fennblades I guess), it was a very similar experience, where I couldn't do enough damage early on to push on scenario or prevent getting rushed. So yeah...not having a very good track record versus in-my-face lists.
I have my next game scheduled for tomorrow, versus Siege 1. Let's see if Zaat's anti-shooting tech can save the day or if his firepower will prove too powerful.
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Post by steeltitan on Feb 14, 2020 21:09:13 GMT
As I said before, my next planned game would be against Siege 1. I wasn't particularly interested in playing against his Flames army again and I was keen to see what Zaateroth could do against other kinds of armies. His army was in the Heavy Metal theme force: Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane - WJ: +28 - Squire - PC: 0 - Triumph - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Charger - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Charger - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1) Storm Strider - PC: 18 Storm Strider - PC: 18 Journeyman Lieutenant Allister Caine - PC: 0 - Ace - PC: 10 Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 0 - Firefly - PC: 8 Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3 Alexia Ciannor & the Risen - Alexia & 9 Risen Grunts: 10 - Thrall Warrior However, shortly before the game, I decided to borrow his Sloan models to play some HoD Sloan We were dojo-ing some lists during the day and the temptation became too great. My buddy has run Cygnar Sloan so it would be a great opportunity to learn how to play the list from someone with experience. The list I ran was: Captain Kara Sloan - WJ: +28 - Hunter - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Hunter - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Hunter - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Hunter - PC: 10 - Hunter - PC: 10 - Minuteman - PC: 9 - Minuteman - PC: 9 - Minuteman - PC: 9 - Minuteman - PC: 9 - Minuteman - PC: 9 Umbral Guardian - PC: 0 Umbral Guardian - PC: 0 Hermit of Henge Hold - PC: 0 Griever Swarm - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 So it's the classic Cygnar 5x5 with a few Infernals additions. The Umbrals would start off the table to shield guard crucial shots, either against Sloan or Hunters, to make sure my fire base doesn't suddenly collapse. The Hermit is there for an ARM debuff when needed. The Grievers are my Accumulator triggers. I personally wasn't sure it would be enough or if they would prove too squashy. GAME 6: HoD SLOAN vs SIEGE 1 HEAVY METAL We rolled for scenario and rolled a 1 for King of the Hill. Right off the bat, my opponent said this is a terrible scenario for Sloan, who prefers to concentrate her firepower in one place and the list can't properly contest without losing pieces and thus firepower. I won the roll-off and decided to go second and choose table sides because I wanted the wall close to the middle zone for Sloan to hide behind. The other side didn't have much for her to hide behind. The rest of the terrain wasn't influential. The first turns we both move up. He places a Foxhole close to the center zone but soon realizes he made a critical error. The foxhole is not touching the zone and as such he cannot contest the zone while staying inside the cover. During my first turn, my Hunters can potentially already shoot everything in the zone so he can't risk putting one of his models in the open. On my turn, I try to stay outside 19" from the Storm Striders and try to keep my models 4" apart. Even e-leaps will devastate my light jacks under feat. During his second turn, his Stormstrider cautiously advances towards the house in the center. Three Minutemen are taking cover behind it. He shoots at the one in range and LOS. He doesn't move into the zone though, probably because he wanted to stay outside the Minutemen's threat range. Anastasia comes in on my left flank and charges another Minuteman and does some good damage. The rest of his army shuffles around in the Foxhole and three Risen move into the center zone. The Stormstrider on my left flank moves towards the flank and back and stays out of range of the Hunters but threatening the left zone with his range presence. Then, on my second turn, I totally realize myself that I can score five points and win (i.e. my opponent realized this too late himself and mentioned it while I was starting my turn). I position my Grievers so all Jacks accumulate. A Minuteman on my left flank moves towards the objective and easily removes it by himself. Two Minutemen from behind the house move up and kill the three Risen in the center zone while the third runs into the right zone. Lastly, Sloan vaults over the wall out of cover, dashes to the central flag and yells SUCK IT CYGNAR! Quick win on a bad scenario for Sloan. Sometimes unexpected things happen but this win was obviously due to two critical errors by my opponent. To be fair, I probably wouldnt have realized i could score 5 myself and the game could have gone very different. Despite being told many times, it is still not a routine to ask myself 'how do i win and not lose this turn?' at the beginning of my turn. We quickly re-racked and got set up for a rematch...
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Post by steeltitan on Feb 16, 2020 18:27:29 GMT
GAME 7: HoD SLOAN vs SIEGE 1 HEAVY METAL Rematch time! We rolled for scenario and got Invasion. My friend won the roll-off and chose to go first. I chose the table side with more terrain on it, giving my opponent the side that had close to no LOS blocking terrain. I also liked having a house and a forest to hide some contesting pieces behind and the trench could be very nice for Sloan to chill in. Worth nothing at this point is that we agreed to not enforce Death Clock. Like I wrote before, I don't find it helpful having to rush through my turns learning a new army. I did take a picture after deployment, so you get a better overview of the table and setup. As you can see, my opponent did not repeat his mistake of placing the Foxhole outside of the scenario. He moves everything up first turn. I play it cautiously and stay outside of all his guns, except Triumph's. His threat range is too far to stay out of. My Hunters move to just behind the Trench, in a long line from the house to the forest and the Minutemen move behind them, farther back. I try to remove his left Charger but don't do enough damage to finish the job. I move a Minuteman into the forest, inside the right zone. My friend and more experienced Sloan player explains that I should have moved up more. All Hunters could have been in front of the trench, putting them outside of Siege's feat range and not in range of both Striders. The damage that most of his Jacks can put out is not something to really pay attention to. This would have also meant that, firstly, I concentrate my firepower and can threaten to take out any single target (even a Strider with Arcane Shield) and, secondly, I threaten both zones. This would deter him from moving anything into the zone, especially with my feat still available. As it stands though, he can just move his right Strider into the zone without fearing significant damage from my right flank. Triumph and the Chargers move into the middle zone, taking out the objective. He runs the Firefly to my Minuteman in the right zone and the Strider there takes it out. Some Thralls move into the center zone as well. Feat turn! Although I would have loved to save my feat to take out both Striders, I can't reach both with enough of my models. There are plenty of other models in range though so I just go for it and hope that I can remove enough models to prevent a crushing retaliation. When the dust settles, I removed Triumph, the Firefly and a Charger. I ran out of attacks before I could remove the second Charger. Not a great result considering the damaged Charger was taking out by an Umbral Guardian I had popped out the turn before. Concentration of force is definitely something to plan for in this list. Seeing how I had to focus down hard on the Jacks, I did not manage to remove the Thralls in the center zone so I don't score. I leave the objective (after Sloan's shots) on 4 boxes. Everything is contested so no points for anyone. He counter-feats and takes out systems left and right, disabling Hunter guns and removing another Minuteman. Ouch! It really puts a dent in my fire base. In my next turn, though, I still manage to take out the right Strider. and the Charger. At some point in this turn, I would have clocked myself had that been a thing. From this point in the game, it just becomes a long grind. The bookkeeping on my Jacks becomes very difficult, trying to make sense of which Jack still has which system and where it actually is on the table. Letting the game progress to late-game will not be in my favour if Death Clock is on. He slowly takes out more Jacks, while I remove his objective and his other Strider. Eventually, although all my Jacks are in a terrible state, he's left with his caster, Caine and his banged up Firefly, I win because it's 5-2 and neither of us can really close out the game any other way before turn 7. So, in closing, it eventually turned out to be a bit of an odd game because we played without Death Clock but it was interesting to see how Sloan's list performs late game. It can still grind out quite a bit of damage, even if the damage output drops pretty quickly. Still, lesson learned, close out the game early. The time you need to check systems later is not in my favour. Also, I have to concentrate my firepower so I can maximize feat output. Positioning with this list is even more unforgiving than usual. Just to share some thoughts from my opponent; he thought it was a mistake from him to choose first turn. It meant he had to commit to a zone that I would have otherwise maybe not even moved a model into, forcing him into range of my guns, so it put him in an awkward position, risking models unnecessarily. My buddy was nice enough to let me borrow his army, even though I'm moving away so you might see Sloan make a reappearance on the blog in the future!
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Post by charlzheimer on Mar 2, 2020 12:07:58 GMT
that last write up sounded like a excrutiating long game. tough i am curious.
how did you like the sloan light spam in general? do you see this as a good list or?
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Post by steeltitan on Mar 6, 2020 19:04:55 GMT
I like it a lot but I've been on the receiving end a lot more often. I played Jaws of the Wolf into it (Butcher3 and Harkevich mainly) and lost most of my games...and thats a decent amount of ARM in those lists.
Its hard to say though...Ive personally only playes those two games. Its an easy list to catch someone off guard with (if they are not familiar with it) and just win.
In other news, I have another game scheduled for tomorrow. Im going up against Amon with 13 light jacks.
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Post by steeltitan on Mar 8, 2020 21:13:19 GMT
GAME 8: AMON CREATOR'S MIGHT So, I moved back to my home country (The Netherlands) where I don't know any WMH players personally. There are a few active players scattered throughout the country and my next opponent was nice enough to come down from Amsterdam for a game. We have a small tournament coming up in Amsterdam, so we decided to play on clock to get some practice with that too. He played Amon in Creator's Might. As such, he can start with his upkeeps in play (no upkeep cost on the first turn either) and his choir and solos get repo 3". His army was: Amon - 8x Dervish - 2x Purifier - 1x Devout Sevy0 - Dervish 2x Max Choir 2x Vassals 1x Covenant of Menoth 1x Wrack A couple Vassal Mechaniks I made some notable changes since last time, increasing the size of my BG, adding a Tormentor and a Soul Stalker. To free up the 25 points, I dropped one Lamenter. I also dropped an Umbral Guardian and a Wretch and removed the Grievers from my list. I also reduced the second Cultist unit to min and moved the Dark Sentinels to the min unit, planning on trying out the ambush. The final version came out to be: Zaateroth, The Weaver of Shadows - WJ: +26 - Tormentor - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Tormentor - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Soul Stalker - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2) - Lamenter - PC: 7 - Foreboder - PC: 4 Infernal Gate - PC: 12 Umbral Guardian - PC: 0 Great Princess Regna Gravnoy - PC: 0 Eilish Garrity, the Dark Seeker - PC: 5 Hermit of Henge Hold - PC: 5 Lord Roget d'Vyaros - PC: 4 Valin Hauke, The Fallen Knight - PC: 7 The Wretch - PC: 4 Cultist Band - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 - Master Preceptor Orin Midwinter - PC: 4 Cultist Band - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 - Dark Sentinel - PC: 0 - Dark Sentinel - PC: 0 - Dark Sentinel - PC: 0 I've only really played against Menoth once before, with my Khador, so I don't know much about it. This Amon list is very straightforward though. However, that doesn't make it any less problematic for Zaateroth. My DEF tech is close to useless (MAT 7/Boosting/Eye of Menoth/Synergy), including my feat and his light Jacks hit so hard they can easily remove any Horror. He also has so many that even if I get an alpha off, the Jacks that can retaliate can just wipe me. During my games against Madrak 1 and Stryker 2, I got rushed fast, before I could summon enough Horrors to impact the game. I feared the same could easily happen versus Amon. We played Recon 2. Amon won the roll off and decided to go first. I chose the table side with some more terrain. The forest closest to me would help me hide some important solos, the center forest would block off charge lanes to my Gate and would be a good piece to place a Anathema cloud next to to protect my left flank some more. The cloud on my side would also be a nice piece, seeing how my army benefits from eyeless sight. NOTE: I accidentally switched around the flags and objectives. My opponent realized after our first round and we corrected my mistake. On his first turn, he shields most of his jacks and puts Enliven on his Purifiers. The Purifier on my right flank has Fortify. On my first turn, I run up a Wretch and summon a Desolator, blocking off LOS to my army. RoT goes up and the Lamenter receives Scything Touch. That probably wasn't worth it, there's only a 12.5% chance the Lamenter kills a Dervish, even without Ashen Veil. I run everything up as far as I can, staying outside of 11". Regna summons a Lamenter. The Gate activates last and I'm an idiot by shooting the Enlived Purifier, who then makes a full advance towards me. Good thing I put everything outside of 11". DOH! Then, on Amon's second turn, my opponent thinks for a while and decides not to commit his Purifier but instead play it a bit more defensively for a turn. Two Dervishes and two Purifiers move behind the forest and the rest of his Jacks inch forward. Shielding and Enliven go up. As you can see on the picture below, I play my turn 2 very cagey. I pull back most of my models, to outside 11" to buy myself another turn of summoning. I considered sending in the Lamenter, after potentially spraying down the bunched up Jacks behind the forest with my Desolator but decide not to because I don't want to risk losing the Desolator. Again, I completely overestimated what the Lamenter could do...I should really just use OddsMachine during a game...I sacrifice Roget to summon a Tormentor. I score one point from the Umbral Guardian on my flag. He doesn't score because he forgot to put the Vassal on his flag. At this point, my opponent's clock is already low (approx. 20-30 min), so I realize there's a good chance that that will be my only realistic win condition. I have a bit more clock but I'm also not fast enough. However, I just have to stay ahead on clock and it'll be fine. On Amon's third turn, he really commits...even though I thought I was still safe. I didn't realize my Gate was within 11" of some of this Jacks and didn't see how side step could be problematic for me. Long story short, he uses my Gate to bounce to other models that were initially out of reach. He kills Regna's Lamenter, puts some damage on the Hermit and hits Zaateroth three times for 10 damage each! Luckily I had plenty of Essence on her to transfer but it took a fair chunk out of three of my Horrors. OUCH! The Gate goes down. If I remember correctly, at some point during his turn, he clocks himself. I always feel that winning on clock isn't a very satisfying way to win but considering my thoughts on the match-up, it might be the most likely condition. We decide to play on to just see what happens... My ambushing Cultists come on on the right side, to help with my essence, because I need more. I cast Ghost Walk on Zaateroth to move out of melee and pull her back to just outside of kill box. I summon a Tormentor off of Eilish and keep it back. The Desolator sprays down four jacks, three of which I manage to remove with two Tormentors. The Tormentor on the right fails to kill the Purifier...DEF 15 is hard. The Soul Stalker kills the other Purifier after his Coil attack hits. I stopped taking photos at this point but I have six heavies and a light, which doesn't sound too bad. However, on his turn, he basically kills all my Horrors but the Desolator and the newly summoned Tormentor and I can't help thinking 'yeah, that's what I expected from this match-up'. On the end of that turn, he also scores enough points to win on scenario. I think that if he had rushed me earlier, the game would have been over even quicker, ideally (for my opponent) before he clocks himself. I don't know what Zaateroth can really do to keep that many Jacks at bay. Main lesson learned from this game is that I need more Cultists. I really like the idea of an ambushing unit but it can't come at the expense of the essence economy, so I'll revert back to having two full units to deploy. Also, hitting is hard sometimes but I have Runewood2 coming soon so that will be a great addition! My next games will likely only be in two weeks, during a casual tournament in Amsterdam.
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