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Post by sand20go on Jan 21, 2020 14:12:24 GMT
Hey guys - what are you running in flames, what is your strategy, what is your thinking?
GO!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 21, 2020 14:41:56 GMT
You know, I haven't really thought about it. I guess I would probably run one of the Zerkovas or something. I might add some infantry, perhaps some Morrowans?
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Post by auraco on Jan 21, 2020 15:09:38 GMT
Tried a list last week, didn't like it. Going to try this one next, once the models are all out(because we are still waiting for some of the models to run the list...) conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1J7bp59ypboZoToKoIoUoUoMoMoWp2oYoYKhador [Theme] Flame in the Darkness !!! This army contains pre-release entries. [Zerkova 1] Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova [+28] - Gallant [17] - Lancer [10] Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire [7] Glyn Cormier, Illuminated One [0(5)] Grand Master Gabriel Throne [7] Morrowan Archon [8] Ragman [4] Thamarite Advocate [0(3)] Thamarite Advocate [0(3)] Thamarite Archon [8] Thamarite Archon [8] Order of Illumination Resolutes (max) [13] - Morrowan Battle Priest (3) [0(6)] Order of Illumination Vigilants (max) [10] Order of Illumination Vigilants (max) [10] Technically it would be one battle priest by unit, but conflict chamber doesn't allow splitting the requisition choice...
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Post by irateironfang on Jan 21, 2020 15:46:04 GMT
Cygnar Cygnar Flame in the Darkness !!! This army contains pre-release entries. [Maddox 1] Major Beth Maddox [+30] - Hunter [10] - Spriggan [17] Glyn Cormier, Illuminated One [0(5)] Grand Master Gabriel Throne [7] Morrowan Archon [8] Ragman [0(4)] Thamarite Advocate [3] Thamarite Archon [8] Legion of Lost Souls (max) [18] Order of Illumination Vigilants (max) [10] Precursor Knights (max) [14] - Precursor Knight Officer & Standard [0(4)] The Devil's Shadow Mutineers [7] 1st and foremost I wish we had more caster options for Khador... Zerkova can definitely lock things down for a turn and have ridiculous spell range with tasty re-rolls from the Tharamite Archon. But the change in pace is a nice plus. *Maddox can give "Assail to the Spriggan" putting him up the board 9" on a charge with 11" threat, then the dual attacks can clear up some additional board space with his launchers. Additionally, you could do this with a clamjack too just not as much reach, but getting a Khador jack up the board quick is like the Spanish Inquisition... no one expects it. *Also Snipe on a Hunter or the Tharamite Archon is quite nice. *The Tharamite is a nice ranged piece with mobility that is great for spot removal and he provides some well-needed tech to shut down the infernal monstrosities. In addition, taking the risk of using death drivers on all his shots (if you get 3) has proven quite interesting allowing me to whittle down or kill the opponent's UA pieces, if not in reach. Most of his different shot types make him quite useful. However, most of the archons I find are a priority target for the enemy so he can crumble quickly if he is focused down. I'd suggest putting him on the other side of a forest or cloud if possible to avoid being deleted but still put shots out due to true sight. *The Morrowan's debuff zone is nice, he can also blind things on a crit. * Ragman's debuff is pretty self-explanatory but if you get him and the Morrownan close enough. *Precursor Knight's is a must and they are relatively point efficient when you consider the UA's mini-feat that gives them another dice of damage making them 4 die on the charge with pow 12. I would say its nothing to scoff at especially considering the debuff from the Morrowan to attack them if it's nearby. *Grand Master Gabriel Throne has been a VIP for most of my play helping out with additional attack power, pathfinder, and tough. *The vigilantes are awesome and even more so with Glyn giving them true sight. Legion of Lost Souls are basically better Pikemen you trade the conditional crit knockdown and precision strike depending on which flavor of pikemen for recursion, a ranged weapon, magical attacks, more or less the same stats and you still have shield wall A lot of the vigilante stuff and the Tharamite Archon stuff can apply to zerkova 1 as well where she can position clouds within her range and where she wants. Same for the Precursors making them hard to hit if ya put the cloud right in front. Ghost Walk is definitely a plus for the precursors as well. Then she can deny some charges and ranged attacks to make sure things are still living even if you drop your cloud for more offensive spells. The Devil's shadow Mutineers are pretty neat they have not done too much for me but it's a nice little elite unit to have running around to take out problems or hold flags. Zerkova 2 I'm a bit befuddled at will have to look at her more, Occult whispers would be nice but you have to use a lot of unit attachments to get mileage out of it. You would need the Koldun attachment on units everywhere and have a bunch of tharamite Advocates on the board and sub in an Alexia to cast some spells. It would be interesting for sure just not something I've explored as much as this list. -IrateIronFang
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Post by auraco on Jan 21, 2020 17:47:29 GMT
Zerkova2 is clearly there for fluff reasons... That theme is terrible for her compared to Wolves of winter, there's not even an argument to make for running her in flames. It does mean that if we ever get a Zerkova3 she will probably be able to play in flames.
The legions of losts souls do indeed seems like better pikemen and a lot of people don't seem to like them, that speaks volume about the state of the pikemen...
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Post by sand20go on Jan 21, 2020 18:12:11 GMT
Zerkova2 is clearly there for fluff reasons... That theme is terrible for her compared to Wolves of winter, there's not even an argument to make for running her in flames. It does mean that if we ever get a Zerkova3 she will probably be able to play in flames. The legions of losts souls do indeed seems like better pikemen and a lot of people don't seem to like them, that speaks volume about the state of the pikemen... Except (right?) _IF_ you can protect them on the approach (and Z1 certainly has the tools) they would hit like trucks +2 POW from Alexia 3 with Power of Death +2 From Gab Throne So Pow 16 on the charge. Could be up to POW 20 with the Hermit and Ragman. Add in some BP to protect them. Now understand - better options out there. You could, for example, bring Stkyer 2 and make the same exact package POW 23 WEAPONMASTERs. But that said, would still leave a pretty big mark.
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Post by harrysan on Jan 21, 2020 18:53:45 GMT
I ran the following list at a local tournament a little bit ago. Mostly limited due to models available (either haven't released yet or I don't own them). Seems to be pretty similar to other lists I've seen.
War Room Army
Khador - Zerkova1 Icy Flames
Theme: Flame in the Darkness 75 / 75 Army 0 / 40 Specialist
Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova - WJ: +28 - Gallant - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Lancer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Charger - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1)
Morrowan Archon - PC: 8 Morrowan Archon - PC: 8 Thamarite Archon - PC: 8 Thamarite Archon - PC: 8 Grand Master Gabriel Throne - PC: 7 Savio Montero Acosta - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 0 Harlan Versh, Illuminated One - PC: 4
Precursor Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts: 14 - Precursor Knight Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Alexia Ciannor & the Risen - Alexia & 9 Risen Grunts: 10 - Thrall Warrior
THEME: Flame in the Darkness ---
GENERATED : 01/21/2020 13:34:44 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
It honestly worked really well. The combination of Awe from the Morrowan Archons with the -2 to hit from Zerkova's clouds is brutal into melee matchups even with some hit fixers. The Archons also can get good spot removal done and apply Awe where needed thanks to flight.
The Thamarite Archons can do a lot of work, especially with Death Driver and SWI to eat with it. Until they both roll 1 shot, then hot garbage (kidding...kinda).
I don't have a Hermit yet so Ragman fills in, and Acosta is also insane with Awe, cloud, and riposte/dodge. Harlan is mostly points filler, although if he has a good target Purgation is money.
I still hate that I bought Precursor Knights but they get work done. I found Zerkova can often deliver enough of them that with minifeat and Throne giving +2 strength and Ragman using a Morrowan Archon to apply Death Field they can hit harder than expected. As mentioned before, Awe + Clouds makes them able to get stuck in pretty well.
Vengeance on Alexia is pretty good, but I think after playing it that Alexia2 would be better. Just didn't have anything to spend 3 point on.
While it didn't really wind up seeing much use, the threat of the Lancer arcing for Zerkova also helped with her control, keeping people more honest on how far to push, etc.
Charger was also for points reasons, but honestly didn't hate it. Two boosted POW 12s seem to always be useful somehow.
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Post by irateironfang on Jan 21, 2020 19:02:12 GMT
So are you saying you have heard skeptical feedback on the Legion of Lost Souls as well
Out of curiosity, would you say it's more an issue with the way these kinds of melee infantry models (with a 2" reach) are treated in WarmaHordes. For example, in Cyganar there are sword breakers, Mennoth Initiates of the Order of the Wall, Skorne with the Immortals, etc. there are quite a few other factions that also have a two-inch reach but there are redeeming things when they are in and out of theme on their stat/tech card already but their stats are needing in some areas. In FITD the upside is the Blood Bound brings back a model if you slay a model with a soul and the enemy is RFPed. You could kill a model during the maintenance phase and get back you lost warrior, it can't activate but still, that's one less model to clear before you even start your combat phase. In addition, all the other things we discussed above.
The issue with our IFP is that there isn't a lot of tech for them on their card without bringing other models along for the ride like the UA's or solo, then their theme does nothing for them. Unlike the other melee centric armies like FITD gets vengeance, or unyielding for Cygnar in their melee theme, or skorne with the exalted getting a soul token and some other shenannigans etc. Don't get me wrong-a counter charge placed well can ruin the best of plans for your opponent but it takes a certain strategic finesse and experience for it to work when the other themes its like yea keep this guy in the cmd rng of that guy or yea my warcaster gives veteran leader to everyone, a little bit less effort to make it all work out. I know some people would say aligning buffs is like a rude goldberg machine sometimes but I challenge anyone to plays a LEGOS game and try, I think they'll find it a little harder. It's like they are getting taxed for the two inch reach but the theme doesn't support them. It's also silly that theme only effects a maximum of 7 models (Great Bears:3, Kovnik 2:, Sofiya, Markov) [War Dog has CC on its own so I didnt' count it]
Sorry for the side track Sands its a soft sport for me.
Btw nice spot on that Pow 23 beat down combo you mentioned
-IrateIronFang
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Post by auraco on Jan 21, 2020 19:38:49 GMT
I've got no idea what the cygnarian sword breakers are suppose to be... Are you talking about sword knights?
And it's not an issue with with these kinds of models, the initiates of menoth for example are pretty good and work exactly as advertised, the the immortals have a lot of synergy with the other exalted models and are also very cheap.
The problem is the iron fang themselves here, they are just too expansive for what they bring to the table. Sure countercharge is cute, but every iron fang unit is a couple of points overpriced and the requisition choice are horrible. It also has no cute trick outside of counterchage, no reccursion, no magic attack, just push more fragile dude at your opponent and hope it works with an army of dudes with one attack each. The pikemen tend to trade poorly because they are expansive and have no way to get extra attack while having some of the worst defensive stats in the game for a melee unit. Also having played vengers in khador in warrior of the old faith, the ulhan are pretty much just inferior, and since they can both be played in the same theme, I feel like the comparison is possible even though most of the time cross faction comparison tend to not be all that valid. I know during the CID a lot of people thought that about the Legion of lost souls too. I'm going to give them a try, yeah they are expansive and probably not worth a merc slot in most of our theme, but having vengeance in flame in the dark is one hell of a buff.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 21, 2020 20:10:27 GMT
Thoughts on this? conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1J7bp59ypbpjoToRoKoKoIoJoMoMaeoEp2oFKhador [Theme] Flame in the Darkness [Zerkova 1] Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova [+28] - Gallant [17] - Lancer [10] Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire [7] Black Bella, Duchess of Dread [4] Grand Master Gabriel Throne [7] Hermit of Henge Hold [0(5)] Morrowan Archon [8] Morrowan Archon [8] Ragman [4] Savio Montero Acosta [0(6)] Thamarite Archon [8] Thamarite Archon [8] Field Mechaniks (min) [3] Precursor Knights (max) [14] - Morrowan Battle Priest (3) [0(6)] - Precursor Knight Officer & Standard [4]
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Post by auraco on Jan 21, 2020 20:23:26 GMT
Where are the vigilants?! But seriously, it should work, it's hard to go wrong with the full archon and alexia package and plenty of souls to fuel her.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 21, 2020 20:39:58 GMT
Where are the vigilants?! But seriously, it should work, it's hard to go wrong with the full archon and alexia package and plenty of souls to fuel her. You like the vigilents with her? I guess I am waiting on the final rules but it seems that you really then are relying upon pew pew to get the work done. That lack of a damage buff with her makes me feel you want the PKs....and she has hex blast if she needs to get ride of an upkeep
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Post by auraco on Jan 21, 2020 20:48:35 GMT
Well... we do have the full rules for the vigilants. Vigilants are also a melee unit, with gang they hit harder than the precursor on non mini feat turn... Yeah I like the vigilants and my games with and against them so far have convinced me they get work done. With veteran leader from the morrowan archon they get mat 10 blessed attacks. Yeah they are expansive, but they do everything, magic attack, magic ranged attacks, accurate pow 12 shooting, that can ignore stealth with Glyn, accurate melee attack, heck even without gang they are no slouch at base mat 7. Also if the advocate of thamar end up with fell curse, it won't be as important to one round stuff if you can leave a no healing bubble on the table.
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Post by Havock on Jan 21, 2020 22:26:49 GMT
*cough* The Battle Priests are spread out over the three units.
I don't have it though, and if I had it I wouldn't play it. Because I barely play any games at all anymore ._.
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Post by harrysan on Jan 22, 2020 4:47:29 GMT
sand20go Seems pretty close to what I ran, probably would work similarly.
In noodling around, I think it may be worth trying dropping one of the Thamarite Archons and moving some other points around to fit in Vigilants and Cormier. Vigilants make up for the lost shots of the TA but provide another unit for vengeance. I think 1 BP goes on the Vigilants to help proc vengeance. It does mean buying more models though...
I'm also still not sold on the LoLS, but maybe it's something that works better on the table than I imagine?
conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1J7bp59ypboZoToRoKoKoIoJoMoYoEp2oFKhador [Theme] Flame in the Darkness [Zerkova 1] Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova [+28] - Gallant [17] - Lancer [10] Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire [7] Glyn Cormier, Illuminated One [0(5)] Grand Master Gabriel Throne [7] Hermit of Henge Hold [5] Morrowan Archon [8] Morrowan Archon [8] Ragman [4] Savio Montero Acosta [0(6)] Thamarite Archon [8] Order of Illumination Vigilants (max) [10] Precursor Knights (max) [14] - Morrowan Battle Priest (3) [0(6)] - Precursor Knight Officer & Standard [4]
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