shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Jan 10, 2020 12:52:45 GMT
We kinda have that in the way Arkadius can take Gorax and Mire can take Swamp Trolls. Irregulars is a pretty far cry from an actual merc roster. Are there really any unaffiliated monsters in the fluff beside Thornwood Maulers and non-skorne Cyclops? I'm honestly not a huge proponent because you'd have to make the monsters so bland and inoffensive it defeats the point a bit. It works with mercs because you can have generic robots. There's no such thing as a generic animal.
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Post by Azahul on Jan 10, 2020 13:36:04 GMT
Tatzylwurms spring to mind, Skarath just belongs to the pale Tatzylwurm subset. There are a variety of different Drake species that I don't believe have ever appeared in the wargame. Some creatures called Spine Rippers that are about on par with a heavy Warbeast exist. Bears can apparently be Warbeasts, if Lug is any indication, which kind of implies that many other "regular" large animals could be too.
Honestly the RPG books are packed full of different creatures that could be "generic" Warbeasts if you wanted to go down that route. I don't think it's a good idea though. The way Warlocks connect to Warbeasts is so specific to that particular brand of Warlock that it's best to leave the edge cases to Warlocks specifically. It's not like Mercenary Warjacks are typically available to the other Factions as part of their own battlegroups (yes I know some recent theme forces allow just this within the context of said themes), the way this suggestion would enable.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Jan 10, 2020 13:36:23 GMT
Thanks to Brun and Lug, you have the potential for any large animals to become warbeasts. I don't think Lug is unique for an Iron Kingdoms Polar Bear, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
There's also Tatzylwyrms, and a few other beasts in the Monsternomicon, but I don't have my PDFs handy to double check.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Jan 10, 2020 14:01:23 GMT
I think Tatzylwurns should be gator beasts. It kind of ticks me off Viper Tatzylwurms were never officially released as gator lessers.
As we've all said, merc beasts would kinda dilute hordes faction identities. But it could mean we'd finally get some monaternonicon beasts.
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Post by Charistoph on Jan 10, 2020 14:53:16 GMT
There has been some wish listing for a while for some Warbeast casters. IE: A warlock who is also a warbeast. They wouldn't be able to be forced for obvious reasons, but they might have an Animus and be a Warbeast model. So it would be affected by warbeast keyword interactions and have a damage spiral. ... Warpwolves are even less likely to be able to do this. Warpwolves are artificial creations. They don't occur naturally. Every Warpwolf has been created by the Druids for a specific purpose as a tool. They're not typical werewolves. A druid has to specifically administer the Warpwolf elixir to someone, willing or unwilling. After this is done and the mess from the first transformation is cleaned up, the warpwolf is enslaved to serve its new masters. Maybe occasionally a Warpwolf might escape this control, but the chance of it maintaining control of its mental faculties is small. And smaller still is it finding other escaped warpwolves to form any type of society. Pureblood warpwolves are the ones who could still be considered anything more than beasts. But the typical warpwolf is no longer a person, they're a monster. Not a person who might be able to form a society with others of its kind.
Indeed, it would have to be a Pureblood that somehow had a Wilding that allowed them to influence other Warpwolves. There is another case, which I'll bring up in a second.
Does everyone clamoring for a Warbeast Warlock forget that Bethayne and Belphagor are a thing?
What about Kromac? He's probably the closest to having one that has a relationship to being a Warlockbeast, currently.
Either way, it would and should be a very rare occurrence. Outside of Cryx, there's only one Warcasterjack (and Cryx has been cheating with how liches work). With Skorne it would almost have to be a character Cyclops Shaman. Trollbloods, the only way I could think of is if someone place a decapitated Warlock's head on to a decapitated Warbeast within seconds or Doomshaper or similar somehow created a one-off ritual to warp one of their kin in to a Dire Troll. For Legion, we'd be looking at Absylonia3, Kallus3 or Thagrosh3, or an Ogrun version of Kallus.
The storylines for each could be very interesting to explore.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Jan 10, 2020 16:25:15 GMT
I don't think every faction needs Warbeast-Warlocks. With trolls in particular, it could just be an old warlock riding on the back of a dire troll.
Oh, and The Child from grymkin is sort of like a Warbeast too. At least looks wise.
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Post by greytemplar on Jan 10, 2020 17:45:45 GMT
Not in Beast form, no, but I'm pretty sure a Warpwolf is still human for 90% of their time (Purebloods excepted). There are at least a few RPG one-shots and plot hooks based on that premise. I doubt one could ever be a Warlock (and Kromac already fills the shapeshifting Warlock design space), but I think it'd be interesting to see a Warbeast that looks like a regular human infantry model initially and transforms later in the fight. Yes, they do have a human form. However from the point of view of the Druids it wouldn't make much sense to transform their warpwolf after the battle has commenced. You gain nothing by keeping your most powerful asset in such a vulnerable position. And from the Warpwolf's perspective its much the same. Why would you wait to transform when the bullets are flying?
And even in human form they are still completely insane, which eliminates the possibility of any magic use.
The only way this would make sense is to completely overhaul the rules for Warpwolf beasts. Make them slightly cheaper because they are forced to begin the game in human form and introduce some mechanic that limits their ability to transform so that it would remain an actual downside. Maybe add a rule that if they begin a turn with 0 Fury they have a roll to see if they revert back to human form.
While such a thing would be quite flavorful, it would just cause balance issues.
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Post by gobber on Jan 10, 2020 18:53:02 GMT
I don't think every faction needs Warbeast-Warlocks. With trolls in particular, it could just be an old warlock riding on the back of a dire troll. Oh, and The Child from grymkin is sort of like a Warbeast too. At least looks wise. Arguably all of the other hordes factions already have theirs. Circle has Kromac, Legion has Thags2 and Kallus2, Skorne has Xerxis2 (I don't think rasheth's agonizer palaquin counts), minions have Sturm/Drang, Grymkin have the Child. Trolls are really the only ones left out, though a case could be made that Bearka fills some similar territory even if the bear isn't technically a warbeast like Lug.
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Post by Charistoph on Jan 10, 2020 18:55:56 GMT
That sounds like something akin to what happens to a member of the Crucible Guard...
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Post by elricaltovilla on Jan 10, 2020 19:06:14 GMT
I don't think every faction needs Warbeast-Warlocks. With trolls in particular, it could just be an old warlock riding on the back of a dire troll. Oh, and The Child from grymkin is sort of like a Warbeast too. At least looks wise. Arguably all of the other hordes factions already have theirs. Circle has Kromac, Legion has Thags2 and Kallus2, Skorne has Xerxis2 (I don't think rasheth's agonizer palaquin counts), minions have Sturm/Drang, Grymkin have the Child. Trolls are really the only ones left out, though a case could be made that Bearka fills some similar territory even if the bear isn't technically a warbeast like Lug.
Thagrosh I can see the argument for him being a Warbeast warlock (I disagree with it but I see the argument). Legion, as I've already said, has Bethayne and Belphagor, who are the only actual Warbeast/warlock according to the rules. Xerxis2 is a battle engine, not a Warbeast (even though it's a living mount, but then the siege animatrix is also a battle engine). Bearka is cavalry because trollkin can't ride horses (it's in the fluff). Sturm/Drang I don't really understand, but I don't think they are a Warbeast either. The child, well I already mentioned that.
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Post by Charistoph on Jan 10, 2020 22:58:06 GMT
Xerxis2 is also technically cavalry, a dude riding a war mount. It's not like he's riding a chariot or other type of vehicle. He's just Battle Engine in size.
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Post by Azahul on Jan 10, 2020 23:00:01 GMT
Yes, they do have a human form. However from the point of view of the Druids it wouldn't make much sense to transform their warpwolf after the battle has commenced. You gain nothing by keeping your most powerful asset in such a vulnerable position. And from the Warpwolf's perspective its much the same. Why would you wait to transform when the bullets are flying?
And even in human form they are still completely insane, which eliminates the possibility of any magic use. The only way this would make sense is to completely overhaul the rules for Warpwolf beasts. Make them slightly cheaper because they are forced to begin the game in human form and introduce some mechanic that limits their ability to transform so that it would remain an actual downside. Maybe add a rule that if they begin a turn with 0 Fury they have a roll to see if they revert back to human form. While such a thing would be quite flavorful, it would just cause balance issues.
Like I said, make it a character Warbeast. This doesn't need to be the default for all Warpwolves, I'd just like to see the idea explored. The rationale behind holding back on the transformation would simple be that there is something valuable that can only be offered by the Warpwolf in their human form. Alyce Marc is an excellent example. It doesn't have to be a spellcaster or a Warlock attachment or anything so specific, such a model would just have to have something that they can only do when human as a reason for them to keep back from transformation until later in the game.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Jan 12, 2020 1:01:12 GMT
The closest thing we have to wild warbeasts is skorne disciples of agony. And it’s not too much of an issue.
I’d like to see some money monsters that any faction can use. They’d have some drawbacks like extremely low threshold, but perhaps all you need is a no frills beater. There’s also the thing where it’s possible the circle already employs bears and we just don’t have them yet. Same with skorne. So that leaves... only a few truly cosmopolitan creatures.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Jan 13, 2020 0:34:27 GMT
Thanks to Brun and Lug, you have the potential for any large animals to become warbeasts. I would imagine that a Warlock spending enough time around any wild animal could turn it into a warbeast. They just need to.make a primal connection.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Jan 13, 2020 1:41:00 GMT
Thanks to Brun and Lug, you have the potential for any large animals to become warbeasts. I would imagine that a Warlock spending enough time around any wild animal could turn it into a warbeast. They just need to.make a primal connection. I would like to think it works that way but I don't know if it's supported in the fluff. If PP ever actively starts supporting the IKRPG again, I hope they will take steps to make a more generic warlock career.
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