gaut
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 1
|
Merc MOW
Jan 1, 2020 4:34:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by gaut on Jan 1, 2020 4:34:22 GMT
First time poster He can move a void archon can he not?
|
|
|
Merc MOW
Jan 1, 2020 5:55:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Korianneder on Jan 1, 2020 5:55:42 GMT
Hell, Boss MacHorn is ARM 17 with 10 boxes and she's not even bothering to cover up her torso! Has the power just crept? Butcher4 is literally bare chested and has a higher arm than iron fang pikemen that are wearing a full suit of armor. You're probably looking way too far into this.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 1, 2020 7:15:58 GMT
Butcher4 is literally bare chested and has a higher arm than iron fang pikemen that are wearing a full suit of armor. You're probably looking way too far into this. That doesn't exactly make sense to me either, but it's not exactly inconsistent with Doomreavers (ARM 14 chippendales). I'm willing to accept that powerful magical Fellblades offer some level of magical protection. Honestly, MacHorn doesn't bother me that much on her own as she's a named character, it's just that her coming out so close in time to the SteelIron feels a bit like this is PP's new baseline: that medium-based steam armours at SPD5 ARM17+ with 10 boxes are the new normal. I hope not, but the next time another faction gets a medium-based infantry model in their CID you don't think the players are going to point to these two models and say "Why are our new models so bad? Look at those two, how come they get such high stats and we don't?". You know, same as I am now - and I'm one of the guys who thought POW 12 on the Supression Tanker was too much! Look, I'm not saying that I expect everything to be perfectly consistent across all models, and I'm not saying that I cannot accept any model having higher ARM and SPD than a basic MOW. I can, but I kinda of expect a REASON if that happens. You tell me, say, an Archon on a medium base has ARM 20 SPD 7, I'm OK with that: he's been given divine powers from the deities of the Iron Kingdoms. You tell me MacHorn built a super-expensive one-of-a-kind suit for herself that's not at all practical for mass production, that makes perfect sense to me. But you tell me that some no-name solo working for some money-grubbing company that is not known for it's technology or mechanical production facilities (or for caring all that much about the lives of it's employees) can churn out a cheap suit of steam armour (4 points) that is strictly better in multiple ways than the best that Khador, with all it's resources and years of experience (we INVENTED the steam engine!) can produce, and I'm gonna say that just don't compute to me, not without a reason. Tell me it was made using incredibly rare Mithril that Khador doesn't have access to, tell me the guy inside is magic and is using magic to speed up and protect his suit, tell me something. Give me a reason to accept it, a reason for it to exist and make sense within the fictional world we have invested in. Otherwise we're right back to all that MkII "Khador can't have nice things because reasons" nonsense. To be clear my complaint is half fluff-related (WHY are their no-name steam armours so much better than even our best MOW armour? Sure, Darius and MacHorn are named characters so they get special consideration, but the HeadHeads are just no-names!) and half rules related (WHY are other factions getting better MOW than Khador? That's our thing!). I know games rules shouldn't be so beholden to fluff that you release bad models, but I mean, why did he have to be SPD 5 ARM 18 with ten boxes? He's a mechanic who doesn't need to be in the frontline - he doesn't even need to be in base contact to use Power Lifter, you're telling me he wouldn't have worked at, say, ARM 16 with eight boxes, and maybe a shield? Like, you know, all of Khador's MOW solos? Game rules need some degree of consistency as well, if a SPD 4 model that gives you a reliable (unlike Lanyssa) 2" threat extension to ANY non-huge-base model in your army is not worth 4 points EVEN WITH IronSteelHeadHead's added repair abilities, then maybe just make it cheaper? And hell, it was barely even a complaint: I mentioned it briefly and then moved right on to talking about how we could proxy/convert and use the model.
|
|
|
Post by mcdermott on Jan 1, 2020 10:07:57 GMT
IIRC its less protection and more pain resistance and surviving wounds that would kill or cripple normal people
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Merc MOW
Jan 2, 2020 14:47:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by sorokin on Jan 2, 2020 14:47:33 GMT
Butcher4 is literally bare chested and has a higher arm than iron fang pikemen that are wearing a full suit of armor. You're probably looking way too far into this. That doesn't exactly make sense to me either, but it's not exactly inconsistent with Doomreavers (ARM 14 chippendales). I'm willing to accept that powerful magical Fellblades offer some level of magical protection. Honestly, MacHorn doesn't bother me that much on her own as she's a named character, it's just that her coming out so close in time to the SteelIron feels a bit like this is PP's new baseline: that medium-based steam armours at SPD5 ARM17+ with 10 boxes are the new normal. I hope not, but the next time another faction gets a medium-based infantry model in their CID you don't think the players are going to point to these two models and say "Why are our new models so bad? Look at those two, how come they get such high stats and we don't?". You know, same as I am now - and I'm one of the guys who thought POW 12 on the Supression Tanker was too much! Look, I'm not saying that I expect everything to be perfectly consistent across all models, and I'm not saying that I cannot accept any model having higher ARM and SPD than a basic MOW. I can, but I kinda of expect a REASON if that happens. You tell me, say, an Archon on a medium base has ARM 20 SPD 7, I'm OK with that: he's been given divine powers from the deities of the Iron Kingdoms. You tell me MacHorn built a super-expensive one-of-a-kind suit for herself that's not at all practical for mass production, that makes perfect sense to me. But you tell me that some no-name solo working for some money-grubbing company that is not known for it's technology or mechanical production facilities (or for caring all that much about the lives of it's employees) can churn out a cheap suit of steam armour (4 points) that is strictly better in multiple ways than the best that Khador, with all it's resources and years of experience (we INVENTED the steam engine!) can produce, and I'm gonna say that just don't compute to me, not without a reason. Tell me it was made using incredibly rare Mithril that Khador doesn't have access to, tell me the guy inside is magic and is using magic to speed up and protect his suit, tell me something. Give me a reason to accept it, a reason for it to exist and make sense within the fictional world we have invested in. Otherwise we're right back to all that MkII "Khador can't have nice things because reasons" nonsense. To be clear my complaint is half fluff-related (WHY are their no-name steam armours so much better than even our best MOW armour? Sure, Darius and MacHorn are named characters so they get special consideration, but the HeadHeads are just no-names!) and half rules related (WHY are other factions getting better MOW than Khador? That's our thing!). I know games rules shouldn't be so beholden to fluff that you release bad models, but I mean, why did he have to be SPD 5 ARM 18 with ten boxes? He's a mechanic who doesn't need to be in the frontline - he doesn't even need to be in base contact to use Power Lifter, you're telling me he wouldn't have worked at, say, ARM 16 with eight boxes, and maybe a shield? Like, you know, all of Khador's MOW solos? Game rules need some degree of consistency as well, if a SPD 4 model that gives you a reliable (unlike Lanyssa) 2" threat extension to ANY non-huge-base model in your army is not worth 4 points EVEN WITH IronSteelHeadHead's added repair abilities, then maybe just make it cheaper? And hell, it was barely even a complaint: I mentioned it briefly and then moved right on to talking about how we could proxy/convert and use the model. Iron heads in the ikrpg do have the option to both increase their armours ARM bonus and decrease their armours speed penalty via upgrades. It is rotally feasable that a Steelhead ironhead would use some if their pay to purchase said upgrades and have better stats than a mow, whom cannot upgrade their armour by Rules as Written.
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Merc MOW
Jan 2, 2020 14:51:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by sorokin on Jan 2, 2020 14:51:22 GMT
That doesn't exactly make sense to me either, but it's not exactly inconsistent with Doomreavers (ARM 14 chippendales). I'm willing to accept that powerful magical Fellblades offer some level of magical protection. Honestly, MacHorn doesn't bother me that much on her own as she's a named character, it's just that her coming out so close in time to the SteelIron feels a bit like this is PP's new baseline: that medium-based steam armours at SPD5 ARM17+ with 10 boxes are the new normal. I hope not, but the next time another faction gets a medium-based infantry model in their CID you don't think the players are going to point to these two models and say "Why are our new models so bad? Look at those two, how come they get such high stats and we don't?". You know, same as I am now - and I'm one of the guys who thought POW 12 on the Supression Tanker was too much! Look, I'm not saying that I expect everything to be perfectly consistent across all models, and I'm not saying that I cannot accept any model having higher ARM and SPD than a basic MOW. I can, but I kinda of expect a REASON if that happens. You tell me, say, an Archon on a medium base has ARM 20 SPD 7, I'm OK with that: he's been given divine powers from the deities of the Iron Kingdoms. You tell me MacHorn built a super-expensive one-of-a-kind suit for herself that's not at all practical for mass production, that makes perfect sense to me. But you tell me that some no-name solo working for some money-grubbing company that is not known for it's technology or mechanical production facilities (or for caring all that much about the lives of it's employees) can churn out a cheap suit of steam armour (4 points) that is strictly better in multiple ways than the best that Khador, with all it's resources and years of experience (we INVENTED the steam engine!) can produce, and I'm gonna say that just don't compute to me, not without a reason. Tell me it was made using incredibly rare Mithril that Khador doesn't have access to, tell me the guy inside is magic and is using magic to speed up and protect his suit, tell me something. Give me a reason to accept it, a reason for it to exist and make sense within the fictional world we have invested in. Otherwise we're right back to all that MkII "Khador can't have nice things because reasons" nonsense. To be clear my complaint is half fluff-related (WHY are their no-name steam armours so much better than even our best MOW armour? Sure, Darius and MacHorn are named characters so they get special consideration, but the HeadHeads are just no-names!) and half rules related (WHY are other factions getting better MOW than Khador? That's our thing!). I know games rules shouldn't be so beholden to fluff that you release bad models, but I mean, why did he have to be SPD 5 ARM 18 with ten boxes? He's a mechanic who doesn't need to be in the frontline - he doesn't even need to be in base contact to use Power Lifter, you're telling me he wouldn't have worked at, say, ARM 16 with eight boxes, and maybe a shield? Like, you know, all of Khador's MOW solos? Game rules need some degree of consistency as well, if a SPD 4 model that gives you a reliable (unlike Lanyssa) 2" threat extension to ANY non-huge-base model in your army is not worth 4 points EVEN WITH IronSteelHeadHead's added repair abilities, then maybe just make it cheaper? And hell, it was barely even a complaint: I mentioned it briefly and then moved right on to talking about how we could proxy/convert and use the model. Iron heads in the ikrpg do have the option to both increase their armours ARM bonus and decrease their armours speed penalty via upgrades. It is totally feasable that a Steelhead ironhead would use some if their pay to purchase said upgrades and have better stats than a mow, whom cannot upgrade their armour by Rules as Written. In fact ANY Iron head can have a better suit than the standardised mow suits if they choose to invest their funds into it, which for most of them is the reason they became mercs to begin with.
|
|
|
Merc MOW
Jan 2, 2020 15:04:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 2, 2020 15:04:57 GMT
Hmm, OK, fair enough I guess. It still rubs me the wrong way, but if there's a fluff justification then that's not so bad.
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Jan 2, 2020 20:20:41 GMT
Hmm, OK, fair enough I guess. It still rubs me the wrong way, but if there's a fluff justification then that's not so bad. Tbf, the upgrade that increases their armourbis called "ablative armour". So I guess they could have bothered to make the suit a bit bulkier than a MoW trooper to reflect the fact that this Iron Head probably did bolt some extra plating onto his suit. Maybe they did and scrapped the concept art because it looked bad. I dunno the creative process.
|
|
|
Post by mcdermott on Jan 2, 2020 21:40:51 GMT
Or used higher quality steel, but what book has the rules for non khador "MOW" anyway?
|
|
|
Merc MOW
Jan 3, 2020 2:34:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by michael on Jan 3, 2020 2:34:22 GMT
Or used higher quality steel, but what book has the rules for non khador "MOW" anyway? The IKRPG books.
|
|
|
Merc MOW
Jan 3, 2020 3:33:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 3, 2020 3:33:38 GMT
Tbf, the upgrade that increases their armourbis called "ablative armour". So I guess they could have bothered to make the suit a bit bulkier than a MoW trooper to reflect the fact that this Iron Head probably did bolt some extra plating onto his suit. Maybe they did and scrapped the concept art because it looked bad. I dunno the creative process. Problem with bolting extra steel onto something is it tends to slow you down...
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Jan 3, 2020 17:38:02 GMT
Tbf, the upgrade that increases their armourbis called "ablative armour". So I guess they could have bothered to make the suit a bit bulkier than a MoW trooper to reflect the fact that this Iron Head probably did bolt some extra plating onto his suit. Maybe they did and scrapped the concept art because it looked bad. I dunno the creative process. Problem with bolting extra steel onto something is it tends to slow you down... That is true, i guess they omitted that fact for game balance reasons in the IKRPG.
|
|
|
Post by mcdermott on Jan 3, 2020 20:58:48 GMT
Or used higher quality steel, but what book has the rules for non khador "MOW" anyway? The IKRPG books. Yes, what book. I have the core ones and it gives rules for Ironhead in kings gods and whatnot, but the only ruleset is for mow
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Jan 3, 2020 22:17:35 GMT
Yes, what book. I have the core ones and it gives rules for Ironhead in kings gods and whatnot, but the only ruleset is for mow All the rules for Ironheads are in No Quarter #52
|
|
|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jan 5, 2020 4:09:31 GMT
First time poster He can move a void archon can he not? I think you're right. So could be an interesting option in a jack-heavy Wolves list with double void archon. Interesting... Cheers, Dave
|
|