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Post by sand20go on Dec 16, 2019 14:24:04 GMT
Archons EVERYWHERE. What are you running to handle the def skew?
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Post by auraco on Dec 16, 2019 14:35:55 GMT
Uh, archons are a def skew? I've played against the dunhian and the primal one a lot lattely, they are not def skew, but the dunhian archon is really annoying with the super martyrdom every turn.
The void and menite one are not that hard to hit either.
That leaves us with the morrowan and thamarite one, so far applying doom reavers supported by arcane might from Vlad2 has been working well enough for me, playing wotof too, boosted cavalry charge attack is enough to get rid of them. The morrowan one is only def 14 against guns, which is not that hard to hit.
Not sure we need a specific tech against them. The Victor might not actually be that bad against most of the high def archons since they all have flight, get some mileage out of those Flak fire auto canon.
If you really wanted to tech against it, Stationnary is one of the rare tech that works on archons, Sorscha1 might be an interesting drop, I've also been seeing way less big battlegroup list, so she might be an interesting all around drop.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 16, 2019 15:28:02 GMT
Uh, archons are a def skew? I've played against the dunhian and the primal one a lot lattely, they are not def skew, but the dunhian archon is really annoying with the super martyrdom every turn. The void and menite one are not that hard to hit either. That leaves us with the morrowan and thamarite one, so far applying doom reavers supported by arcane might from Vlad2 has been working well enough for me, playing wotof too, boosted cavalry charge attack is enough to get rid of them. The morrowan one is only def 14 against guns, which is not that hard to hit. Not sure we need a specific tech against them. The Victor might not actually be that bad against most of the high def archons since they all have flight, get some mileage out of those Flak fire auto canon. If you really wanted to tech against it, Stationnary is one of the rare tech that works on archons, Sorscha1 might be an interesting drop, I've also been seeing way less big battlegroup list, so she might be an interesting all around drop. 1) You take 2 Morrow archons. That is your base. 2) Then you take things like Tharmarchons. Dodge+ DEf 16. Now we are layered so the Tharms are Def 18 in combat if near a Morrow. You can do this in flames. 3) Then you drop in a def skew caster. Haley3, Ashlyn are 2 popular choices right now. Stryker 2 gets those archons up to ARM 22 against your guns. Cross2 is interesting with his feat to protect stuff on the way in. Fiona essentially makes everything unhittable. And if you haven't seen the Tharmarchon in action you are in for a TREAT. RAT 7, rerolls (innately) d3 shots with deathdriver lets it clear infantry like a CHAMP. All of the above makes me want to get Z1 onto the table. But I think it is an open question of just how much infantry she really wants......see deathdriver ;-) But the big thing
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Dec 16, 2019 15:30:10 GMT
Uh, archons are a def skew? I've played against the dunhian and the primal one a lot lattely, they are not def skew, but the dunhian archon is really annoying with the super martyrdom every turn. The void and menite one are not that hard to hit either. That leaves us with the morrowan and thamarite one, so far applying doom reavers supported by arcane might from Vlad2 has been working well enough for me, playing wotof too, boosted cavalry charge attack is enough to get rid of them. The morrowan one is only def 14 against guns, which is not that hard to hit. Not sure we need a specific tech against them. The Victor might not actually be that bad against most of the high def archons since they all have flight, get some mileage out of those Flak fire auto canon. If you really wanted to tech against it, Stationnary is one of the rare tech that works on archons, Sorscha1 might be an interesting drop, I've also been seeing way less big battlegroup list, so she might be an interesting all around drop. I think he is talking about the Twin Archons, yes. Those with Ashlynn, Fiona, Haley3, or Zerkova1 are pretty difficult to hit. I'd second using Sorscha against them. Divine Manifestation only gives them immunity to KD and blind and the feat doesn't use an attack roll.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 16, 2019 17:30:01 GMT
Does Beast's Murderous work against them?
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Post by auraco on Dec 16, 2019 17:32:47 GMT
Does Beast's Murderous work against them? Yes, they are warrior models. Both murderous and the crit work against them.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 16, 2019 18:41:21 GMT
Yes. B09 would be great against them. _IF_ you don't get hermit and ragman stacking (and/or a bad minifeat PK to face) the one thing about flames is that it doesn't hit THAT hard. A lot of the builds are about winning the def skew attrition game and I really like, until the meta shakes out, S1. Being large bases they are easy to see. They can't shake the feat.
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Post by auraco on Dec 16, 2019 19:10:06 GMT
One of the weird thing about Flame in the dark, it that it's also pretty good into flame in the dark. Zerkova1 isn't a terrible idea to pilot the list against other the other faction take on the list...
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Post by sand20go on Dec 16, 2019 22:14:46 GMT
One of the weird thing about Flame in the dark, it that it's also pretty good into flame in the dark. Zerkova1 isn't a terrible idea to pilot the list against other the other faction take on the list... She definitely helps with the shooting from the Tharmachon but do you think she can deal with the def skew? Feels like both sides would sit there and just wail on each other ineffectually. I guess she can try to spray and fish for criticals though. And rerolls would be nice.....
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 17, 2019 6:58:58 GMT
Yes, they are warrior models. Both murderous and the crit work against them. Yes. B09 would be great against them. Cool. So Sorschas then... how about S3 AC? She can freeze them if she gets close enough, she's giving out Flank for extra accuracy, and her infantry are pretty tough so can maybe tank the alpha. Also Bombardiers have CRA. Of course my solution would be Strak1 with B09 (Superiority + Overrun to go in, kill a couple of Archons, and walk back out), because for me themes are something that happens to other people. So is winning. Hmm, actually I guess Strak can take B09 in WGK? Could be worth a try? I'm also wondering if just Torch with Superiority is enough. Yeah, you'd have to boost your attack rolls, but I figure you can probably still kill one Archon on a charge, then with Overrun + Sprint you should be able to get to safety. Or just, you know, any jack with Superiority boosting attack rolls. Hmm, Irusk1's feat gives out +2 to hit too, add that to some CRAs and maybe you've got something? Irusk1, Juggernauts, B09, WGRC? Hmm, Devastators can boost ROD damage rolls right? Probably won't kill an Archon with just one ROD though. Zerkova2 with a bunch of Ternion to get boosted magic attack rolls and freeze the Archons in place?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Dec 17, 2019 7:35:32 GMT
Yes, they are warrior models. Both murderous and the crit work against them. Yes. B09 would be great against them. Cool. So Sorschas then... how about S3 AC? She can freeze them if she gets close enough, she's giving out Flank for extra accuracy, and her infantry are pretty tough so can maybe tank the alpha. Also Bombardiers have CRA. Of course my solution would be Strak1 with B09 (Superiority + Overrun to go in, kill a couple of Archons, and walk back out), because for me themes are something that happens to other people. So is winning. Hmm, actually I guess Strak can take B09 in WGK? Could be worth a try? I'm also wondering if just Torch with Superiority is enough. Yeah, you'd have to boost your attack rolls, but I figure you can probably still kill one Archon on a charge, then with Overrun + Sprint you should be able to get to safety. Or just, you know, any jack with Superiority boosting attack rolls. Hmm, Irusk1's feat gives out +2 to hit too, add that to some CRAs and maybe you've got something? Irusk1, Juggernauts, B09, WGRC? Hmm, Devastators can boost ROD damage rolls right? Probably won't kill an Archon with just one ROD though. Zerkova2 with a bunch of Ternion to get boosted magic attack rolls and freeze the Archons in place? Killing one archon per jack sonds kinda ineffiecient, considering archons cost half as much points wise and most good flames lists bring 4, but such is the game were playing i guess.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 17, 2019 8:03:06 GMT
Killing one archon per jack sonds kinda ineffiecient, considering archons cost half as much points wise and most good flames lists bring 4, but such is the game were playing i guess. Beast09 can potentially kill two or more in a turn if they are within around 6" of each other. The way I see it (and it's a very simplified view of course) is if you spend a 13-18 point activation to kill an 8 point model, but don't lose the 13-18 point model (or any control points) doing so, then technically you're ahead? Eh, just spitballing really. My jacks are my flat-faced axes, and to me every problem looks like a nail...
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Post by borderprince on Dec 17, 2019 12:48:32 GMT
I'd second using Sorscha against them. Divine Manifestation only gives them immunity to KD and blind and the feat doesn't use an attack roll. Exactly. And once she freezes with her feat, the shield guards are shut down, so if you can reach out and touch at range, you actually hit the models you want.
Fog of War on DEF13+ models is also decent - True Sight on the Thamarite Archons doesn't affect Concealment, so you can get to DEF15 against the shooting. Getting them below 50% to hit before the reroll makes the Thamarites less effective.
So Sorschas then... how about S3 AC? She can freeze them if she gets close enough, she's giving out Flank for extra accuracy, and her infantry are pretty tough so can maybe tank the alpha. Possible, but you're probably going to need to run S3 into range of a whole load of other threats to do it (or hit with Winter's Wrath, but given the DEF skew issue, that's not very reliable). It's also very unlikely to work if the Archons are on both flanks.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Dec 17, 2019 13:25:36 GMT
I'd second using Sorscha against them. Divine Manifestation only gives them immunity to KD and blind and the feat doesn't use an attack roll. Exactly. And once she freezes with her feat, the shield guards are shut down, so if you can reach out and touch at range, you actually hit the models you want.
Fog of War on DEF13+ models is also decent - True Sight on the Thamarite Archons doesn't affect Concealment, so you can get to DEF15 against the shooting. Getting them below 50% to hit before the reroll makes the Thamarites less effective.
So Sorschas then... how about S3 AC? She can freeze them if she gets close enough, she's giving out Flank for extra accuracy, and her infantry are pretty tough so can maybe tank the alpha. Possible, but you're probably going to need to run S3 into range of a whole load of other threats to do it (or hit with Winter's Wrath, but given the DEF skew issue, that's not very reliable). It's also very unlikely to work if the Archons are on both flanks.
I regards to Sorscha3, you can make her RAT 8 with spells with the Hermit, just like with Freezing Grip on Sorscha1, however, unlike FG it's an AOE, so you can theoretically do some drift plays.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 17, 2019 14:02:03 GMT
Run a low-DEF model (e.g. a Thrall - very mobile little buggers!) into AOE range of one or more Archons and shoot him in the back with Winter's Wrath...
But yeah, sounds like S1 works better.
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