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Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 15, 2019 12:13:28 GMT
Having tried Strakhov 1 a couple of times in Wolves, I’m now not convinced that you need a caster who is specialized at “delivering” doomreavers in a two list SR pair, which has gotten me thinking about the other casters in our lineup.
Lots of people don’t like Vlad 1. I like The Boss, since I like rolling dice, and I like breaking the normal dice math curve. His feat will make his Battlegroup relevant, and the ability to include a Forge Seer with your two Koldun Lords ensures you have the focus to deliver 3 fully loaded Khador jacks WITH S&P on his feat turn.
I haven’t tried this yet, so it’s still theorymachine. I’d appreciate your thoughts.
Theme: Wolves of Winter
75 / 75 Army
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
Koldun Lord - PC: 4
Koldun Lord - PC: 4
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
- Greylord Escort - PC: 3
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
- Greylord Escort - PC: 3
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Greylord Outriders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10
Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0
Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0
My thinking:
At least 4 units of Doomreavers since they die easily, and you’re relying on terrain, distance, and Wind Wall to keep them safe. I always find double escorts to be advantageous against Tough armies and to maximize the use of terrain to keep doomies safe, so for me that’s a must.
At least 3 Khador heavies for staying power. I included two Juggernauts for armor cracking and a Kodiak for pathfinder and speed.
I included min Outriders because Vlad 1 likes guns, and I think you want a fast unit to get out in front with your Doomies to out-threaten guns on at least one side of the board. If I owned two min units I might consider double min, and drop a unit of Doomies.
Double ternion since ternion can turn your doomies up to DEF 15, and I think without dedicated anti-gun-tech you want the recursion.
The Koldun Lords are self explanatory. I chose a Forge Seer over the Adjunct to have access to 3 bonus focus, and Vlad doesn’t have an upkeep. I ran out of points to fit in a Destroyer, so I didn’t feel like the Guidance was worth it. That might be a mistake as it limits some match ups.
thoughts?
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467 
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Post by snoozer on Nov 15, 2019 13:50:58 GMT
I like everything about vlad1, everything but the model. The newer sculpt also looks no too nice. Maybe he is prettier in real life? I ordered a Vlad 2 who will proxy 1 until he finally gets a resulpt  I think this list could work very well, if you roll man dice S&P also gives extra hard spikes. Three Jacks seem to be about the least that you want to bring. One problem that could happen: You need to make sure that your doomies do not stand in the way of the jack rockets on feat turn. But that's just my 2 cents as a khador amateur  |
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Post by irateironfang on Nov 15, 2019 14:01:14 GMT
I think the only thing I could begin to contribute is that I know VLAD 1 can control from the back with FOCUS 7 but I think he could be played a little farther up the board. I mean getting that blood boon off can support a risky move with an earlier moved unit by using wind wall or razor wind depending on the board state. In addition, being he has boundless charge you wouldn't necessarily need the Kodiak and you could use your cumulative (15) points to play around with a little bit more depending on the match up and board terrain. Maybe that Destroyer you were looking at or the Decimator for some ranged jack support. I know it's nice to just have pathfinder on a stick with that blinding SPEED (at least for Khardoran standards). I think that was your plan to begin with, that way you might possibly have two pathfinder (one on a charge) jacks for a turn . My Doom Reaver play is limited but I always feel like at least in my Meta it helps to have at least one jack with some range capability in the higher (75 pts) games. To try and preemptively remove some things that might cause my doom reavers some trouble before hand. I defer to others and your knowledge just my 0.02 cents. -IrateIronFang |
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Post by auraco on Nov 15, 2019 14:36:34 GMT
I agree that the list could use a destroyer, spot removal is really usefull to clear up path to dig deeper in your opponent army, the spot removal in the list if fairly limite at the moment, being mostly on the min unit of outriders. The ternion can do a bit but in that list if they are on cloud duty they will probably be too far back to do that.
Semi related question, do you have Butcher4? You could take him as a requisition choice instead of the forge seer, I'm not a big fan of the empower bot models, Butcher4 could be more helpfull to the list with the dispel and hard hitting he brings to the table.
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Post by borderprince on Nov 16, 2019 9:48:06 GMT
I think with Vlad1 you need to think about what the list wants to achieve before getting more specific. Vlad1 buffs everything (that is Friendly Faction), so are you going for a balanced list, or one directed at opposing lists with particular features?
Without being too specific, on the jacks front I think you need to think about whether you plan to alpha with the Doomreavers and have the jacks follow up, or try for a combined alpha. If the latter, you will be holding the Doomreavers back a bit, because even with Vlad1's feat the jacks "only" charge 11". Because of AD and base move 6, the Doomreavers can be well ahead of that for Turn 2.
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Post by sand20go on Nov 19, 2019 5:35:26 GMT
Could work but I think the main issue is that Vlad1 will struggle to enable the doomies to make it. WILD though (like crazy enough to try cause I am that kind of guy ;-) I have been TOTALLY digging on the wall of ARM 23 to deliver Butcher3. But what about a wall of ARM 23 to deliver a shit load of doomies? Can't play it into sprays and arching fire would also become a problem but you know..... conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1S767q7q7q7q8h8hnf89nf89nf89nfKhador [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Vladimir 1] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Prince [+28] - Devastator [14] - Devastator [14] - Devastator [14] - Devastator [14] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [0(3)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Feat Turn 1. RUN those clams 16 inches and put them B2B. Then move your doomies up behind them. Use that nice LOS blocking piece of terrian in the middle. And see what they do. You get an extra scenario point if you yell SQUEE. (BTW - It might be better this way, Cause while the Mad dogs are going to die it is more jack points to hide the doomies behind. conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1S76kYkYkYkYkYdHhF8h8hnf89nf89nf89nfnnnnnnKhador [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Vladimir 1] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Prince [+28] - Mad Dog [8] - Mad Dog [8] - Mad Dog [8] - Mad Dog [8] - Mad Dog [8] Gobber Tinker [2] Greylord Forge Seer [4] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 10, 2019 12:38:41 GMT
OK, sand20go, your lists have gotten me thinking that Vlad 1 in Wolves wants fewer doomreavers and more jacks. He can’t protect too many units of doomreavers, but CAN protect a unit and some solos in his 3” bubble of windy love. I’ve been having success with Vlad 1 plus 6 jacks in other themes... this one might work too. The main premise is to use the doomreavers, terrain, and the threat of apparition to set the lines forward far enough to let Vlad get his jacks forward, and then attempt to go for the BIG feat turn (where you cast S&P and still have 6 focus to allocate) to move ahead hard on attrition. Theme: Wolves of Winter 75 / 75 Army Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Rager - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Marauder - PC: 11 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 4 Koldun Lord - PC: 0 Koldun Lord - PC: 4 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0 Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0 |
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Post by borderprince on Dec 11, 2019 8:45:04 GMT
@armchairwarrior - I was actually thinking about running something similar with Butcher1 rather than Vlad1. If you're using the Doomreavers as a first waste jam, then you might not need the speed from Vlad's feat. If that's the case, then Full Throttle + Butcher1 feat gives you a better jack turn.
Caster notwithstanding, I wonder whether it might be worth going down to 2 Marauders, one Juggernaut and swapping the other two jacks to 3 Berserkers. You're relying on the jacks to do quite a bit of work, so having more of them to go more places might be an idea.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 11, 2019 11:38:25 GMT
borderprince, Butcher 1 is an interesting choice, but Butcher 1 still suffers from what he’s always suffered - no speed buff. I don’t disagree with your statement about FT + Feat, but Vlad will more reliably give you a Jack-Alpha and multiple rounds of S&P which benefit the rest of the army. A similar list would probably work with Karchev (but I think I like Karchev better than Butcher 1 as well). If I was going B1, I’d work hard to fit in Ruin. As for the berserkers, I own one kit and one berserker, so at most I can fit in 2 Berserker chassis jacks.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 12, 2019 4:05:23 GMT
OK, sand20go , your lists have gotten me thinking that Vlad 1 in Wolves wants fewer doomreavers and more jacks. He can’t protect too many units of doomreavers, but CAN protect a unit and some solos in his 3” bubble of windy love. I’ve been having success with Vlad 1 plus 6 jacks in other themes... this one might work too. The main premise is to use the doomreavers, terrain, and the threat of apparition to set the lines forward far enough to let Vlad get his jacks forward, and then attempt to go for the BIG feat turn (where you cast S&P and still have 6 focus to allocate) to move ahead hard on attrition. Theme: Wolves of Winter 75 / 75 Army Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Rager - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Marauder - PC: 11 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 4 Koldun Lord - PC: 0 Koldun Lord - PC: 4 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0 Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0 What about losing the rager for either the Void or the Morrow Archon. You get your shield guard with one and more offensive power with the other. To me it is a decision based on your other pairing - is it your drop against dedicated anti shooting. the one thing about windwall - any list that is relying upon shooting pretty much brings these days magical guns. Not all but a LOT. Either on the model or through spells (and of course through the objective if required). |
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