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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 2, 2020 15:54:31 GMT
I definitely recall one of the druids (Kruger?) Helped everblight take over/gain access to the leylines to combat Toruk, so a larger scale alliance between the blackclads and Legion is definitely on the table. That was Krueger working with Blighterghast. The rest of the Circle didn't very much like what he did.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jan 2, 2020 19:04:52 GMT
I definitely recall one of the druids (Kruger?) Helped everblight take over/gain access to the leylines to combat Toruk, so a larger scale alliance between the blackclads and Legion is definitely on the table. It was with Blighterghast so the dragons could learn Everblight's location and take him out. Everblight tried to sacrifice Lylyth and a few archangels so the other warlocks could get away, but she lived.
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Post by Charistoph on Jan 2, 2020 19:06:35 GMT
Think of what Arkadius could learn about pressure points and biology from the Skorne. Think about what the Skorne could learn about augmenting biology outside of their normal operations. But then, there's just also targets of opportunity. A lot of these mixed Themes allow for selections from the groups Warcasters to be operating with 'Jacks outside of their normal experience. Sure, Zaadesh with a Road Hog isn't that surprising any more, but Arkadius or Rask with a Titan or Basilisk? Makeda and Morghoul wouldn't be above sending out a combined force under a Gator or Farrow to rampage across Ios or the Protectorate so their main forces could focus on more important targets. What you've just described is merely Disciples of Agony Plus. Just giving Minion Warlocks access to Skorne beasts in return doesn't warrant a new theme. These cross faction themes aren't just a chance to explore new gameplay options, they also mean something in the lore. Sending out Farrow or Gator forces to harry opponents is something already covered by existing themes, either Disciples or by running a Minion army and suggesting that another faction hired it. Or even playing a 100 point game without themes and taking a mix of each. If I were to see anything Minions-wise, I'd want it to be a Cygnar-Minion theme representing Arkadius returning to help save/show up his old university colleagues in Corvis. That means something, it suggests a character arc the way the other cross-faction themes, it carries a story beyond "What if DOA allowed Minion Warlocks too. Unfortunately, I can't think of any other Minion-faction combination with any real pathos beyond that. All the rivalries and relationships among the Minion characters are internal. Maybe, maybe with Trolls, since Arkadius is loathed by them and they did all get embroiled in that late Mark 3 battle (where the culmination of the Minion arc was a Minion vs Minion battle with a third Minion wanting to interfere, we're such an insular faction...). Troll-Minion-Cygnar maybe? Based on the Hengehold Scroll, such an alliance seems plausible.
It would be more limited than Disciples in Warlocks, but could offer unit, solo, or Battle Engine options that don't work for Skorne. You are limiting yourself by focusing too closely on Disciples of Agony. Should I just call Flame in the Darkness Irregulars Plus for the same reason? I wouldn't be surprised to see Disciples limited even more as a result of such a new theme, by focusing more on the relationship with the Farrow more than the Gators, or vice versa depending on the route the new Theme took.
Nor would I discount the possibility of Cygnar and Minions working together, either. Heck, if anything, I would like to see some Warcasters who were apposed to the Lion's Coup, but had been in the backwater till recently and subtly working with Magnus on the side having those Minion contacts.
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Post by Azahul on Jan 3, 2020 0:02:59 GMT
It would be more limited than Disciples in Warlocks, but could offer unit, solo, or Battle Engine options that don't work for Skorne. You are limiting yourself by focusing too closely on Disciples of Agony. Should I just call Flame in the Darkness Irregulars Plus for the same reason? I wouldn't be surprised to see Disciples limited even more as a result of such a new theme, by focusing more on the relationship with the Farrow more than the Gators, or vice versa depending on the route the new Theme took.
Nor would I discount the possibility of Cygnar and Minions working together, either. Heck, if anything, I would like to see some Warcasters who were apposed to the Lion's Coup, but had been in the backwater till recently and subtly working with Magnus on the side having those Minion contacts.
The units that don't work for Skorne are all character units with stories unrelated to the Minion Warlocks (i.e. Boomhowler, Nyss, Lynus and Edrea, if I remember correctly). My issue with a Skorne-Minion alliance theme isn't just that it would be nearly impossible to distinguish it from Disciples of Agony (which has vastly more overlap than Flames-Irregulars, which just shares the character solos and Precursors), it's that there isn't the groundwork for such a theme on the story front. Even Strange Bedfellows, the most out-of-left-field cross-faction theme, reflects an evolution of a pre-established relationship. I can't recall any such relationships with any of the Minion character units, solos, or Warlocks. The only time I can recall Minion Warlocks even meeting Skorne, period, was Maelok being mentioned as fighting them off-screen and Midas fighting a supply column that wasn't even led by a named character. There's just nothing to build on compared to the character-centric alliances and years-long arcs represented by Warriors of the Old Faith and Strange Bedfellows. Arguably the closest comparison would be Flame in the Darkness, since it's less founded in individual characters the way the other themes are. Unless you consider Morrow and Thamar to be characters, I guess. But a Skorne-Minion alliance predicated on the fact that they share the same geography still has vastly less meaning and emotional investment than two interlinked religious sects putting aside their centuries-long feud to fight an enemy intimately connected to their own shared origin story. That really is the crux of the twofold problem facing any Minion based cross-faction theme. The fact is that three of the Hordes factions already have equivalent themes, and Minions have been such lightweights in the lore. Throughout Mark 2, almost all of our lore was confined to character introductions in the faction-specific sections of the book, never really appearing in the front or back "main story" parts. And of those appearances, most of them were self-centered, featuring Minion vs Minion conflicts. The Minions faction book, Maelok's introduction, Helga's introduction, and even the one big story appearance of Minions in their attack on the Troll city at the end of Mark 3 ultimately followed this pattern. Rask's introduction was a fight against Grim, but really only because Grim walked into him. There just aren't very many hooks to pull on.
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Post by Azahul on Jan 3, 2020 0:14:04 GMT
My rambling point with most of the above was that to create a theme that actually achieves what you're suggesting, i.e. offering access to models not currently available in Skorne, it would need to give a pretty bizarre story to connect the disparate handful of Minions who don't work for Skorne and do so without any prior grounding. The precedence suggested by the existing cross-faction themes suggests that doing so would be pretty unlikely.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Jan 3, 2020 7:07:38 GMT
Well minions are almost by definition minor. theyre either just not enough of them, or they aren’t well organized enough to be a serious force in the setting.
We do get to play them as one, though.
The skorne.... welll perhaps the lore is going to focus on the western army and how it allies with...a warmachine army? I’d think ios would be cool.
Mini casters... I think Leto is hinted at in the troll/cygnar one.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Jan 3, 2020 8:32:42 GMT
Well minions are almost by definition minor. theyre either just not enough of them, or they aren’t well organized enough to be a serious force in the setting. We do get to play them as one, though. The skorne.... welll perhaps the lore is going to focus on the western army and how it allies with...a warmachine army? I’d think ios would be cool. Mini casters... I think Leto is hinted at in the troll/cygnar one. Leto isn't a warcaster, right? I wouldn't be wholly opposed to him being a supersolo on par with a heavy/BE, now that we're getting BGCs that are on par with a full 'caster.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Jan 3, 2020 10:57:08 GMT
Well minions are almost by definition minor. theyre either just not enough of them, or they aren’t well organized enough to be a serious force in the setting. We do get to play them as one, though. The skorne.... welll perhaps the lore is going to focus on the western army and how it allies with...a warmachine army? I’d think ios would be cool. Mini casters... I think Leto is hinted at in the troll/cygnar one. Leto isn't a warcaster, right? I wouldn't be wholly opposed to him being a supersolo on par with a heavy/BE, now that we're getting BGCs that are on par with a full 'caster. Leto actually exists as a (non-canon) warlock already. He was one of the "alternate-history" warlocks that PP released a couple years ago. He even has a card on warroom if you know where to look.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Jan 4, 2020 15:42:49 GMT
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