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Helga2
Jan 22, 2020 4:38:07 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 22, 2020 4:38:07 GMT
Tokens and such would be cool and all, but I don't think they'll look at any real fixes to the meat thresher for a while. I think it's more of a discussion on how she can make it a strong piece. Also, we'd end up talking about this other topic, that would end up talking about more models, and fill the entire forum 😂 When Helga was first revealed, I was kinda hoping we'd get Mackay's Feat or a variation thereof. Something in the realm of Sprint on all Friendly Faction models in her Control Range and the damage rolls of Construct models attacking enemy models in her control range would be automatically boosted. If that's fine in Crucible Guard I can't see boosted Meat Thresher guns being too oppressive...
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Helga2
Jan 22, 2020 12:30:19 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 22, 2020 12:30:19 GMT
Finally got a game with her into not-Khador and... yeah, surprise surprise, it's not a great time when you get alpha'd. More or less managed to hold my own until I ran out of my armour debuff pieces, at which point Helga barely managing to half-kill Arm 19 heavies proved to be insufficient to keep me in the game Losing both Road Hogs hurt too, depriving Helga of her Sprints.
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Helga2
Jan 22, 2020 13:12:00 GMT
Post by P'tit Nico on Jan 22, 2020 13:12:00 GMT
You know what would be a good spell instead of Primed? Positive Charge! Works really well with Reposition and the feat movement.
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Helga2
Jan 22, 2020 23:26:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 22, 2020 23:26:55 GMT
I don't see hordes ever getting that spell, but man it would be good. Would give razor boars a role too.
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Helga2
Jan 23, 2020 17:08:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by trout on Jan 23, 2020 17:08:34 GMT
I am waiting for my Archons to arrive but have hopes that she will be able to slot in to something like this. Right now, this list is just too pillow fisted with Helga2 (IMO). Love the “hit n run” aspect but without her being able to do work/swing attrition on her feat I just don’t see it.
War Room Army
Minions - Carver/Helga2
Theme: Will Work For Food 75 / 75 Army
Lord Carver, BMMD, Esq. III - WB: +28 - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - Road Hog - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Road Hog - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - War Hog - PC: 14 - War Hog - PC: 14 - Battle Boar - PC: 7
Void Archon - PC: 8 Void Archon - PC: 8 Dhunian Archon - PC: 0 Dhunian Archon - PC: 0 Kwaak Slickspine & Gub, Croak Sorcerers - PC: 4
Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
THEME: Will Work For Food ---
GENERATED : 01/23/2020 10:05:05 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
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Helga2
Jan 23, 2020 23:56:50 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 23, 2020 23:56:50 GMT
Not strictly Helga2 related, but we have Scythe's stats up on the Card Database/Warroom (I presume). Had a moment there where I couldn't remember if Multifire straight up didn't work on infantry, but there's an Infernal ruling allowing you to machine gun them down if necessary.
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 0:56:31 GMT
Post by mydnight on Jan 24, 2020 0:56:31 GMT
Not strictly Helga2 related, but we have Scythe's stats up on the Card Database/Warroom (I presume). Had a moment there where I couldn't remember if Multifire straight up didn't work on infantry, but there's an Infernal ruling allowing you to machine gun them down if necessary. Find it hard to squeeze her into a WWfF list given the amount of competition. Restricted x4 weapon master shots are cute and run and gun helps a lot, but she's still a fragile 6 pt solo with only weapon master on pwr10. We're in a world of void archons for 8 and dhunians for free.
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 1:41:25 GMT
Post by Azahul on Jan 24, 2020 1:41:25 GMT
Yeah, I can only see myself taking her in Thornfall Alliance, where Dhunian Archons are FA2 and after that she really just has to beat the performance of a Razorback Crew or Efaarit Scout.
Which is to say, I can't really see myself taking her outside of maybe the odd Midas list.
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Post by Azahul on Jan 24, 2020 3:22:40 GMT
I think where I am on the Helga wishlist front is looking something like this:
-Increase POW on all weapons by 2 -Increase Armour by 1 -Change out Battle Host for Stoke the Fires -Add the clause "Friendly Faction Constructs gain boosted damage rolls against enemy models in this model's Control Range" (lifted wholesale from Mackay) to the Feat
I think that would be enough to get the Meat Thresher back in the list, and also have the amusing effect of implicitly encouraging a few Pyg Tanks too to create a real armoured column style army. I can't see it being too over the top either, seeing as Mackay's Feat also has a hit-and-run component and stronger shooting Battle Engines, not to mention having an all-construct Battlegroup.
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 6:49:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 24, 2020 6:49:45 GMT
I was thinking about something calling out constructs too, though not for her feat. I was thinking a spell she could cycle or something. Even better if non upkeep so the soul slave has something to do.
You still want to keep primed? In kinda sick of dead spells/abilities on Farrow casters.
Her feat is trash and needs to be changed to end of turn I think. We were talking about Scythe today, then other minion solos, and noticing just HOW MANY have reposition or sprint or something, that doesn't stack with her feat. I think it could well be the worst feat in the game for this caster.
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 7:01:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by Azahul on Jan 24, 2020 7:01:13 GMT
I went with Feat because it's demonstrably comparable to an existing ability, making it reasonably easy to assess in terms of balance (even with how fraught cross faction comparisons are, if Mackay's Feat isn't broken surely Helga with the same Feat and a non-construct battlegroup wouldn't be). I also wanted to avoid too much swapping and mucking around on the spell list.
I'm ok with Primed so long as Helga herself gets better stats, and ideally trades Battle Host for a non-upkeep threat boost. If she can provide long threat damage to the list then Primed is at least functional as a damage buff, and in combination with the proposed Feat change I wouldn't be so worried about her lists falling over in the face of other battle engines and the like.
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 7:53:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by custardboy on Jan 24, 2020 7:53:47 GMT
Thematically I do like primed. Really. But for her personally it is the worst possible damage buff. Due to Engine she doesn't need MAT at all, she's the caster so exploding is not relevant, so it's just +2 dmg for -2 arm and as you've seen, she's frequently going to low camp and suffering from the Bone Shrine debuff. Literally any other damage buff in the game would be better.
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 8:01:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by Azahul on Jan 24, 2020 8:01:13 GMT
I'm not denying that Scything Touch or Vortex of Destruction or Positive Charge wouldn't be better, I just feel that with the above changes she doesn't need anything better. She'll be able to solve armour to a reasonable extent, she'll have counter play into faster lists, and she'll have a way to shore up the Meat Thresher's issue with being unable to do work. She'll still be a bit weak into guns but I'm ok with her having that weakness. Besides, having a model capable of reliably hunting Lamenters on Zaateroth's Feat turn is an appealing prospect
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 8:28:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by shmeep on Jan 24, 2020 8:28:25 GMT
I think It'd be better it if the feat also included warbeasts, otherwise we're back to her needing War Hogs to get any work at all done.
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Helga2
Jan 24, 2020 9:23:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Azahul on Jan 24, 2020 9:23:07 GMT
I think we can avoid that to some extent so long as Helga herself hits hard enough. I doubt she'll ever not need War Hogs, but nothing new there. We only have two heavies, not needing one is a tall order.
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