|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 7, 2019 8:44:51 GMT
So I might have a chance to play a Warmachine "intro" game or two with some friends tomorrow. I always have a bit of trouble with this sort of thing because my collection is not very extensive and I'm just not sure how to "show off" the game's strong points without over-complicating things (and also I'm rusty myself as I haven't played in over a year). My general instinct is to run two jacks and a unit (and maybe a solo) on each side, to give an idea of how the game works.
I'm thinking I'll give them:
Harkevich (painted, simple to play) OR Butcher (it's fun to be able to kill anything in the game should they get close)
-Juggernaut (painted, hard-hitting)
-Kodiak (painted, get to show off power attacks)
Croe's Cutthroats
And I'll play:
MACBAIN!!!!! (fun to yell out the name)
- Freebooter x 2 (get to show off power attacks and also how jacks can coordinate I guess)
Nyss Hunters (will initially struggle with Cutthroats due to Stealth, but will eventually close with them; shows a bit of the "rock paper scissors" nature of the game?)
AND/OR Alexia 1 (excessively weak without any other living models but if I can close quickly then she can start recurring off the Cutthroats, which is interesting?)
Or I could play Strakhov1 or Andy2 to show off how tricky the game can be? Other options include Sorscha and Butcher, other Khador jacks including clamjacks, a bunch of Merc solos, and maybe Gallant.
So... does that sound like a good idea? Should I give them Butcher1 instead of Hark as he's still simple but much more fun to wreck face with? What casters work well for this kind of intro game? Or let's just hear your general opinions about intro games.
|
|
igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
|
Post by igor on Nov 7, 2019 9:27:07 GMT
I would go for Butcher1. No fancy rules, just a few spells and a feat. He has the best card ever. I think Andy and Strakhov are far too difficult, with far too many rules on their card. The Jugger and Kodiak are also a good bet. I would perhaps argue Winter Guards instead - primarily for thematic reasons. They are also good targets for Iron Flesh and Fury. A solo? Joe or Widowmaker Marksman? Something like this: Khador (10 points) [Butcher 1] Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov [+28] - Juggernaut [13] - Kodiak [13] Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4] Winter Guard Infantry (min) [6] It's hard to get more Khador than this  |
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 7, 2019 9:35:47 GMT
Cool, I think you're right that Butcher is better. I don't have Winter Guard though.
Andy or Strak would be for me, so I could do some fancier stuff just to give them an idea of how interesting the game can be; "everyone walks forward and hits each other until someone falls down" is not terribly interesting after all.
|
|
igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
|
Post by igor on Nov 7, 2019 9:55:20 GMT
What is wrong with "everyone walks forward and hits each other until someone falls down"? That is my preferred approach  I think Butcher offers all the simple focus mechanics, such as allocating, control area, boosting and buying. He also offers a newbie a reasonable chance of winning (and understanding why he won). Full Throttle and feat is very newbie friendly. The jugger shows beat-stick, with a chance of learning how to fish for critical. As you say, the Kodiak does power attacks and clouds (learn LOS blocking). If you haven't got Winter Guards, the Joe doesn't matter either. How about the Widowmaker solo? It teaches shooting, stealth, and thinking about columns. For infantry, it would perhaps be better if it were Khador infantry, as Butcher's spells are friendly faction. If you are brining Nyss and Freebooters, then it actually requires some positioning of the Khador 'jacks (or screening with cheap infantry) to be able to apply axe to face, as you have longer threat ranges. Thinking about it suddenly makes intro games sound like fun |
|
snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467 
|
Post by snoozer on Nov 7, 2019 12:25:34 GMT
They will be totally overwhelmed even if they have tt experience. Just use a Caster at around 0 points. That's already a lot to learn. Later add another jack each. Then go for a unit and a solo. You can always grow the game size if they are doing well, but you can't turn back time when they walk away intimidated by all the rules! Also try to let them win, but not too obviously Butcher has all these upkeeps, most of them are not so reasonable for the game size and full throttle is counter intuitive towards learning how a jack is supposed to work. I would go for the new bb caster, I tired him in demos and that works pretty well, because he has a little bit of all the things khador. Or sorcha with an emphasis on assassination. |
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 7, 2019 12:51:14 GMT
What is wrong with "everyone walks forward and hits each other until someone falls down"? That is my preferred approach Nothing, other than it being just a little bit "40K" for my tastes; I like that Warmachine is like a puzzle to be solved, with lots of interacting parts. If you are brining Nyss and Freebooters, then it actually requires some positioning of the Khador 'jacks (or screening with cheap infantry) to be able to apply axe to face, as you have longer threat ranges. Well, the Freebooters are a bit pillow-fisted; even if I kill a jack first, between the remaining jack with Fury and Butcher himself it shouldn't be the end of the game - in fact if it comes down to Butcher closing things out himself then that is likely to be a lot of fun. Thinking about it suddenly makes intro games sound like fun I sure hope so! They will be totally overwhelmed even if they have tt experience. Just use a Caster at around 0 points. That's already a lot to learn. Later add another jack each. Then go for a unit and a solo. I don't think adding a unit to the mix makes means needing to learn THAT many other rules (at least not if I don't try to explain all the differences right from the start): it's enough to just say "units activate together, so they all move then they all attack". I am strongly of the opinion that 0 point games with no infantry give a VERY inaccurate view of the real game. You might not consider that to be a big deal for people who've never played any wargame before, but one of my friends has experience with 40K and Infinity, and I want to demonstrate why I like the game, so I want to give a reasonably accurate picture. You can always grow the game size if they are doing well, but you can't turn back time when they walk away intimidated by all the rules! Not if they decide that 40K and Infinity are better games. Also try to let them win, but not too obviously That's the plan, and why I'm trying to put a lot of thought into the initial armies. I want to make sure the lists demonstrate different play-styles, while giving them all the tools they need to win without needing to know the game very well (i.e. I will charge forwards, toss his jacks around a bit, then he'll get back up and destroy my jacks with Fury etc). Butcher has all these upkeeps, most of them are not so reasonable for the game size and full throttle is counter intuitive towards learning how a jack is supposed to work. I would go for the new bb caster, I tired him in demos and that works pretty well, because he has a little bit of all the things khador. Or sorcha with an emphasis on assassination. I will advise them against Full Throttle, Fury is a great spell and Iron Flesh on Butcher himself, or maybe a solo (wardog? At least he's painted!) will not be bad. Vengeful will probably come into play as as my jacks should get the alpha, and a single Juggernaut axe is nothing to sneer at against an ARM 18 Freebooter (especially when I point out the fact that the Crit could freeze my jack if he's lucky). I'll help them out if it looks like they are being overwhelmed. |
|
|
|
Post by borderprince on Nov 7, 2019 12:58:07 GMT
Another for Butcher1 as a good choice for intro games.
For a unit, try to go for Friendly Faction. Iron Fangs (without UA) are fairly newbie friendly and work well with Butcher. Or MoW Shocktroopers. You want something that looks good and can do work.
For jacks, Juggernaut and Kodiak is a good combo. If you don't have shooting from the unit or solo, then a Destroyer or Decimator would be worth thinking about to replace one of the jacks. A shooting jack also gets closer to using Butcher1's warjack points.
You could have:
Butcher1
-Juggernaut
-Kodiak
Max IFP
Kell Bailoch
For a 20 point list that does everything in the game, but is clearly leveraged to Khador's style of high stats being pushed higher.
I'm not keen on Croe's for a couple of reasons:
(1) Lots of rules to use;
(2) Reposition adds more complexity to them;
(3) Stealth is a hard counter at this level for opposing shooting. I appreciate the Rock/Paper/Scissors point, but that part of the game is OK when lists can include more tools to deal with them.
For the mercs, I probably wouldn't go with double Freebooter as the entire battlegroup. Even with Trash, they can struggle against Khador level of ARM. That said they do some fun stuff. Freebooter, Nomad, Talon could work, and like Juggernaut + Kodiak is 2 points under his warjack points.
Units are more open with mercs and depends on what you have. I might say something like Blythe and Bull (shows off small units, some shooting and a bit more complex with Prey and Beat Back), then another unit and a solo to get to 20 points.
|
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 7, 2019 21:23:45 GMT
Good points, though my model selection right now is limited. I guess I can proxy Croes as WG and no-one will care.
|
|
|
|
Post by Havock on Nov 7, 2019 22:39:55 GMT
Kozlov and Butcher are perfect intro casters. The latter is imposing but even a new player quickly learns that everything is slow as shit, including Butcher and can be managed with a tape measure.
As for the opponent: When it comes to mercs I am fond of Magnus1; he's simple yet has a solid amount of depth to his play.
|
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 4, 2019 9:01:55 GMT
Update: the game was delayed but did happen eventually. Full battle report with photos here: soulsamurai.blogspot.com/2019/12/proxying-khador-infantry.htmlTLDR version: I gave him Butcher 1 and took Strakhov 1. I charged in the Kodiak and threw one of his jacks at the other, then next turn his warjacks killed mine. I tried a ranged assassination with Strakhov, but didn't do enough damage. Then a Juggernaut took down Strakhov. So it pretty much went as expected, and overall I was able to demonstrate the core concepts of the game and a bit of the depth that the game has. A few days later he ordered a Menoth starter off ebay... |
|
|
|
Post by Havock on Dec 4, 2019 13:00:39 GMT
May be the christmas spirit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 15, 2019 12:45:44 GMT
I used the same two lists in another intro game with another 40K player.
Like last time I started off by charging in the Kodiak and chucking his Juggernaut into his Demolisher, but this time I followed up with my Juggernaut and took out his. His demolisher then killed my Juggernaut and Butcher killed my Kodiak (with a little help; poor dice, whatchugonnado). I threw Strakhov into Butcher and did a bit of damage, then Butcher and the Demolisher took Strak down. I'll get the full report up eventually, a little bit swamped right now.
So overall it went quite well. After the game he said he liked the system. He's quite heavily invested into 40K though, and he only really seems to like the aesthetics of Convergence, which I believe is not the most new-player-friendly of factions (well, it wasn't back in MkII, I don't really know how they work now), so I don't expect him to buy into Warmachine.
Meanwhile the fellow I played last time's Protectorate army arrived. We played a 50 point game, Kreoss1 vs Strakhov1. It was his second game with Kreoss1, and he doesn't seem to like the caster very much. He seems to want a more straightforwards buff-bot; Kreoss' single defensive buff and collection of control abilities don't seem to be doing it for him. He has his eye on Kreoss2 and Amon right now. We might proxy one of the two next game.
|
|
