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Post by auraco on Oct 31, 2019 12:51:50 GMT
Ok so we all know the void archon is in wolves and we already have a thread discussing him. This is not a thread to discuss that. This is to discuss a new merc option that might find itself in some of my other lists: The vigilants The idea I have in mind for the moment are mainly in wolves. Vigilants cost the same as doom reavers, so swapping a unit isn't hard to do, you lose one dude in the unit, but that's totally fine by me. It gives you some pretty good shooting, some native pathfinder, since they'd be swapped for a unit that doesn't have a CA for pathfinder anyway. You give up on the possibility of apparition on a unit, but you can only apparate so many models in a turn anyway. They hit less hard, but still hard, and with gang they are also more accurate than reavers, more blessed weapons in melee too, they get along well enough with the other debuff in the list. I had a list like that in mind: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1S477pnmnjpb8h8hpupipinf89nf89nfoYKhador [Theme] Wolves of Winter !!! This army contains CID entries. [Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29] - Destroyer [14] - Ruin [17] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire [7] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [4] Orsus the Chained [0(7)] Void Archon [8] Void Archon [8] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Order of Illumination Vigilants (max) [10] Thoughts?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Oct 31, 2019 16:10:59 GMT
I'll be honest here and say that I can only see them performing well with at Valachev at minimum. Range 10 and no repo is bad, plain and simple, and Pathfinder and Stealth barely make up for their terrible defensive stats. As they are they will likely shoot once and then die, or get stuck in and die because gang needs them to bunch up. Valachev at least solves the former issue by giving them pseudo repo with Zephyr. As for casters i dont really feel Sorscha1 with them because also she does is fix their to-hit, which is the least of their problems. Butcher1 can put fury or Iron Flesh on them and make them ranged weapon masters. Boosted POW 12 are still scary and immunity to blasts AND stealth is pretty neato. Kozlov can put either fury or tac sup on them, making them extremely mobile with Zephyr and +2 SPD from feat.
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Post by sand20go on Oct 31, 2019 18:22:29 GMT
Not a fan of them in Wolves. I am not sure they wouldn't get about the same work done as 3 units of Ternions. POW of the xbow and the Bonds of Woe are the same and you get the recursion. Through Req points you get 9 of em for ABOUT the same cost as the vigs.
But at the very least I think you have to go full boat with them and bring Thorne somehow. You now can make them tough (good) and also crank their damage up to 13/15 which is getting up to quasi Doomreaver levels.
I think also, especially before buying just for Wolves, we have to see Gwyn's rules and whether she cranks them to an 11. Absent that I would pass (or bring Croe's which feels like they work a LOT better in Wolves because of the innate Repo 5 so that you can, again, use them to spread out and press hard with a partially refused flank.
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Post by auraco on Oct 31, 2019 18:57:56 GMT
I've 100% commited to Flame in the dark and a lot of my Flames list have double vigilants, so investing in them in not an issue, I got my two units yesterday.
I know they don't hit as hard as the reavers, but I don't think it's that big of an issue, not all of the list need to hit super hard for a list to perform. Mat9 with gang is something the reavers can't reach, so they have different target to hunt.
I'll take throne in Flames, but I'm not sure he's worth it as a merc option just to babysit a 5 man unit.
I'm also seriously thinking about the croes, the on game where I did try them after they got prey they performed well. They bring more shot than the vigilants, but they need prey to work and I'm not the biggest fan of prey.
Very eager to see Glyn's rules, even if they keep her nerfed gun, her leadership true sight with the vigilants is pretty great, especially in Flame in the dark.
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Post by borderprince on Oct 31, 2019 19:41:37 GMT
First thought is... maybe, but not with Sorscha1. Concealment probably isn't the DEF buff they need as quite a few things that ignore Stealth also ignore Concealment. That means they are likely to be lose out against other lists with shooting.
I think OW2 might rather like them. Reduced range to shooting in combination with Stealth should give them more protection than Sorscha1 against other shooting models. OW2 can also give them another damage buff, which might tip them over the edge into dangerous to things other than single wound infantry.
Generally, I think you have to consider whether you need the shooting in this way (rather than, say, just some spot removal from a jack shooting) and whether you end up below a critical mass of Doomreavers. I think 3 units probably is too low and the list might run out of steam too fast.
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Post by marxlives on Oct 31, 2019 20:12:14 GMT
Wow, I didn't even think about dis.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 31, 2019 23:47:28 GMT
In Wolves? Damn, man, I’m not seeing it. The points are already tight and there are so many things you can do with the 7-10 points.
If I’m bringing Vlad or Sorscha, I think I’d rather have Outriders for my ranged game. Sorscha and the OW also really wants at least 1 Void Archon, so I can’t see swapping in a min unit over a flying Archon spray-bot with a POW fixer.
If I were playing Flames? Bring it.
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Post by auraco on Nov 1, 2019 3:55:21 GMT
With Vlad, it's outriders all the way,
In flames where they also get vengeance, yeah I'm going to be trying two units for sure.
OW2 might be a better fit for them, my list was just a quick draft, but these days with the new toys it's either Sorscha1 or OW2 in wolves for me, Vlad works well but doesn't really like any of the new toys for his lists.
I might be trying it this weekend will report back here, the idea doesn't seem all that popular with a lot of you guys, I might be overly excited for nothing about the vigilants.
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