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Post by sand20go on Oct 24, 2019 19:15:52 GMT
Click bait title but you know what Hark (and/or the faction needs?)
A synergy caster
By memory we know have synergy in
Circle (TWO warlocks) Protectorate Convergence Retribution Infernals and a quasi synergy with Caine 3 in Cygnar and Mercs
It really is a great spell because it makes you think and work out how to get the chain going. It would be fun (and I don't think OP'ed) in Khador because while we have some great beat sticks we do NOT have the dirt cheap lights that synergy casters love. We definately would see, because they sorta fill that roll, more zerk chassis jacks on the table.
THoughts? I would love to see us somepoint get one.
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2019 19:38:41 GMT
Synergy isn’t the fix. Khador really does have enough damage buffs to go around. Believe it or not, I personally tried Hark with Synergy a couple years ago and he didn’t feel meaningfully different.
Focus efficiency in the form of some sort of force multiplier could be one way to go. If Butcher1 didn’t already have Full Throttle, I’d suggest that, but oh well.
A different tack entirely is flexibility. I claim that Karchev is the closest caster we have to something “flexible”, thanks to Road to War. (Strakhov1 gets a mention too with Sentry + Overrun.) I started to dabble with a flexible Harkevich in the style of Absylonia1’s Spontaneous Mutation & Playing God, but I never got far before I got tired of working on something that would never be meaningful. Basically you could class it as “battle plans for warjacks in his battlegroup”, but there was an incredibly fine line to walk in regards to balance. Also Locke happened not long after, and she encapsulated a lot of the feel I was aiming for, so whatever...
I can go dig up all that stuff if we all get really bored...
Oh and also on Synergy: we do have dirt cheap jacks in the form of the Berserker and Mad Dog. The PC reduction happened after I tested Hark with Synergy way back when. I’d like the Berserker chassis to be worthwhile as something more than a cheap Synergy target...
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Post by MacGuffin on Oct 24, 2019 19:53:41 GMT
Replace mobility with guided fire. Fixed!! It would also make grolars go brrrt.
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2019 20:12:24 GMT
Replace mobility with guided fire. Fixed!! It would also make grolars go brrrt. I tried Guided Fire. It made Grolars too good and made the rest of our overpriced shooting jacks average, with the Decimator being the big winner (as long as you took three) and the Demolisher a runner-up. (Again this was all pre-Armored Corps CID.) Also it necessitated changes to Black Ivan beyond just a PC drop, because Guided Fire makes the bond nearly worthless. I didn’t like it.
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2019 20:17:05 GMT
Gah. You guys are gonna make me load all this stuff into mental RAM again, aren’t you?
*grumble grumble grumble*
Fine, here goes...
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Post by cplmustard on Oct 24, 2019 20:18:05 GMT
Replace mobility with guided fire. Fixed!! It would also make grolars go brrrt. The problem with losing mobility is 18" gun threat isn't actually that good, especially with only a max 10" charge threat to back it up. I tried playing the bombard spam harkevich style a while ago and I constantly felt I had to cast mobility anyways just to stay relevant and be able to hit enough things to motivate my opponent to move forward. I think the secret sauce is replace mobility with escort, so he can keep his bg moving without having to blow half his stack to do it (free upkeep from adjunct is a huge help), to help with pathfinder he has jaws of the wolf and sorscha0, and he plays well enough with kodiaks for that not to be a problem. As for ways to make his ranged hybrid approach actually work, I'm not entirely sure, he kind of needs something to incentivize ranged or using broadsides, guided fire is decent, but that means you have to blow his whole stack to get some boosted shots, maybe make his feat cast guided fire for free?
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Post by MacGuffin on Oct 24, 2019 21:47:19 GMT
I'll defer to actual Khador players re guided fire. But I like the grolar model, and I agree that guided fire would turn it up to 11. But that would be ok because the model is awesome, and at 18 points, it's not exactly spammable. Can you imagine how awesome it would be if people actually complained about guided-fire-grolar spam? Or decimator spam? I would swoon to see a table littered with those jacks.
Maybe a good compromise would be a guided fire feat. [edit: Which is to say that I see your points, Michael and Cpl. Mustard.]
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Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 25, 2019 7:26:38 GMT
I think the secret sauce is replace mobility with escort, so he can keep his bg moving without having to blow half his stack to do it (free upkeep from adjunct is a huge help) Back in mk2 he had Escort. Mobility is just way too expensive for a FOCUS 6 caster without a cheap and reliable way to increase focus efficiency (Forge Seers are a bit expensive for Empower bots).
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Post by borderprince on Oct 25, 2019 10:37:57 GMT
Since the Jaws theme benefit became pathfinder, Harkevich really needs a total rework. It isn't helpful for a caster who is meant to be focused on jacks have half of one spell replicated by the theme benefit.
I'd like him to make his battlegroup more synergistic (without Synergy - Michael's right that we really don't need more damage buffs). A couple of things I'd like:
Give him an accuracy buff for shooting. Maybe a Flare type ability for battlegroup ranged weapons as a spell. Making Khador jack shooting more accurate really opens up the jack shooting lists, but a +2 bonus to accuracy is much less impressive than Guided Fire, especially with the low base RAT of Khador jacks. But it's still quite good. Might be too powerful with Broadsides, but possibly not.
Possibly a Hunter's Mark type spell (but ideally not Hunter's Mark - without an arc node, he'd hardly ever use it). Again, perhaps trigger off battlegroup ranged attacks. +2" charge move + free charge is good and a pseudo-damage buff. Could also then combine with Sorscha0 if desired for further threat range.
Keeping Reposition is desirable - it makes him interesting from a mobility (not threat range) perspective, and I like that.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 25, 2019 10:44:22 GMT
Since the Jaws theme benefit became pathfinder, Harkevich really needs a total rework. It isn't helpful for a caster who is meant to be focused on jacks have half of one spell replicated by the theme benefit.
I'd like him to make his battlegroup more synergistic (without Synergy - Michael's right that we really don't need more damage buffs). A couple of things I'd like:
Give him an accuracy buff for shooting. Maybe a Flare type ability for battlegroup ranged weapons as a spell. Making Khador jack shooting more accurate really opens up the jack shooting lists, but a +2 bonus to accuracy is much less impressive than Guided Fire, especially with the low base RAT of Khador jacks. But it's still quite good. Might be too powerful with Broadsides, but possibly not.
Possibly a Hunter's Mark type spell (but ideally not Hunter's Mark - without an arc node, he'd hardly ever use it). Again, perhaps trigger off battlegroup ranged attacks. +2" charge move + free charge is good and a pseudo-damage buff. Could also then combine with Sorscha0 if desired for further threat range.
Keeping Reposition is desirable - it makes him interesting from a mobility (not threat range) perspective, and I like that.
That looks a lot like Kraye actually!
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Post by michael on Oct 25, 2019 12:15:05 GMT
It is deeply amusing that you guys mentioned Flare and Kraye. In discussions around the local store, I frequently lament that all of Harkevich’s kit can be found in one rule on the back of Kraye’s card. (If Snark Knight pops in, he can back me up!)
I tried a version of Hark + Ivan that gave Ivan Beacon on his gun as another part of the bond. I forget what I did to Hark as part of that, but I will say that Beacon added to focus efficiency nicely.
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Post by Havock on Oct 25, 2019 12:37:43 GMT
Make him a Morrowan? :v
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Post by borderprince on Oct 25, 2019 13:34:52 GMT
That looks a lot like Kraye actually! Probably my subconscious...*
Haven't played against Kraye in quite a while though.
Worth saying that the suggestions would work differently for Khador as there aren't any cheap shooting jacks to start setting things up easily. Making the benefits spells vs feat would also give a different feel - Harkevich could affect a couple of opposing models a turn, but never get an all out benefit like Kraye's feat. That might be different enough for it to work.
*And as things my subconscious could do, this is really quite depressingly tame. "Cygnar envy" is hardly Freudian, although perhaps quite Khadoran.
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Post by auraco on Oct 25, 2019 13:41:48 GMT
Give him the Koldun lord treatment, redesign him from the ground up, I'm done trying to make him work and get frustrated every time.
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Post by michael on Oct 25, 2019 16:46:23 GMT
Give him the Koldun lord treatment, redesign him from the ground up, I'm done trying to make him work and get frustrated every time. That was dangerously close to where I ended up!
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