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Post by borderprince on Oct 18, 2019 11:32:35 GMT
My obvious answers... Vlad 2, since he’s our best WoW caster and the Void Archon probably just makes him better. Genuine question, how much to you think the Void Archon improves Vlad2?
The Archon isn't friendly faction, so no Hand of Fate or other Vlad2 buffs, which makes me think that the Outriders are going to be the better choice for sprays.
The ARM debuff is undoubtedly good, but I found that using it often led to the Void Archon being taken down the next turn (they aren't that tough), or on my turn on one occasion - thanks Berserking Doomreaver. That might be OK for you if you're happy for dealing with maybe one big target on Vlad's feat turn, but I'd like to hear any further thoughts/experience.
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Post by auraco on Oct 18, 2019 12:05:42 GMT
My obvious answers... Vlad 2, since he’s our best WoW caster and the Void Archon probably just makes him better. Genuine question, how much to you think the Void Archon improves Vlad2?
The Archon isn't friendly faction, so no Hand of Fate or other Vlad2 buffs, which makes me think that the Outriders are going to be the better choice for sprays.
The ARM debuff is undoubtedly good, but I found that using it often led to the Void Archon being taken down the next turn (they aren't that tough), or on my turn on one occasion - thanks Berserking Doomreaver. That might be OK for you if you're happy for dealing with maybe one big target on Vlad's feat turn, but I'd like to hear further thoughts/experience.
I don’t think Vlad2 wants a void archon actually. With the feat and arcane might you don’t really need the dark shroud like Sorscha1 who lacks any kind of damage buff. I’m not sure what you’d cut from the Vlad2 list to include the archon, hand of fated outriders are probably just better. Vlad2 doesn’t help non faction stuff like Sorscha1 or OW2, that’s why I don’t think it will automatically be an auto include in all our wolves list, just some of them. I’m happy we do have more option baked into wolves since the unit choice is pretty restrictive when you look at the options in the list, being able to make list with the archon help diversify that.
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Post by charlzheimer on Oct 18, 2019 12:09:27 GMT
gonna copy azahul's idea and maybe field him in WWFF since its litterally the only way i'd ever get to play him. You can play him in Wolves? You are on the khador forum. You really should be playing some Scary Khador from time to time ;-) i plan on running khador in infernals. always loved khadors jack's.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 18, 2019 13:56:13 GMT
borderprince, like so much about Vlad 2 lists, my pre-play theorymachine best guess is that it’s a sideways change and not an auto include. To fit him in, I think you’re dropping your Outriders to min, or losing Fenris (if you had max Outriders or Fenris in your list). Is a Void archon better than 2 more outriders, which probably have HoF up, or having Fenris who can pull focus to boost attacks or damage rolls? Meh? Seems not strictly better or worse. I think OW2 is definitely going to want one, maybe up to autoinclude levels, since her assassination threat is already so good and being able to affordable and reliably stack a -6 ARM debuff just seems really good (yeah, you could include the Hermit, who OW2 probably wants, or A&H+V which is a too-expensive use of 12 points IMO).
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Post by borderprince on Oct 18, 2019 15:55:12 GMT
I think OW2 is definitely going to want one, maybe up to autoinclude levels, since her assassination threat is already so good and being able to affordable and reliably stack a -6 ARM debuff just seems really good (yeah, you could include the Hermit, who OW2 probably wants, or A&H+V which is a too-expensive use of 12 points IMO). Don't disagree with that. I think the Hermit really goes into her lists for Telemetry on feat turn, which might have the convenient effect of leaving him in a useful place for an ARM debuff, but I wouldn't count on him being around.
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Post by auraco on Oct 18, 2019 17:53:31 GMT
I mean you don’t have to choose between the Voidchon and the Hermit in wolves, can stack both of them. The mad vision can also help the archon live longer. I do like the extra assassination game they bring to the old witch.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 18, 2019 19:03:44 GMT
I agree with both of the points above. The question now is... 1 or 2 void archons with Zavanna?
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Post by borderprince on Oct 18, 2019 20:09:20 GMT
The question now is... 1 or 2 void archons with Zavanna? I think generally the Void Archon benefits from pairs. You're much more likely to be able to get the debuff where you need it, and double sprays can do lots of work.
But that is very much points willing (and they are expensive). I tend to find OW2 lists are tight on points because I always want a decent sized battlegroup with her. Then there's getting enough Doomreavers (with Escorts for pathfinder). It all ends up too quickly.
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Post by auraco on Oct 18, 2019 22:01:23 GMT
With both OW2 and Sorscha1 I’d go with two voids
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 31, 2019 23:50:11 GMT
OK the stats have dropped and now it’s Moment of Truth Time. Should I purchase one, or two of these monsters?
Vlad won’t want two.
For Sorscha and OW 2, I’m not so sure. For the same points, you can add Fenris and the diversity he brings. But the Outriders don’t shine so obviously with either caster so swapping out those 17 points for 16 points of Voidness seems like an interesting idea.
Thoughts before I hit “buy now”?
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Post by auraco on Nov 1, 2019 4:41:06 GMT
OK the stats have dropped and now it’s Moment of Truth Time. Should I purchase one, or two of these monsters? Vlad won’t want two. For Sorscha and OW 2, I’m not so sure. For the same points, you can add Fenris and the diversity he brings. But the Outriders don’t shine so obviously with either caster so swapping out those 17 points for 16 points of Voidness seems like an interesting idea. Thoughts before I hit “buy now”? Already got my two for OW2 and Sorscha1, The fact that they can boost is really valuable with these specific casters, I also like the redundancy on the armor debuff and the no healing they bring to the table. You also know your bringing enough reavers to gorge them on souls without any issues. I'd say go for two, only played them once, two of them in an OW2 list and they performed great.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Nov 1, 2019 10:16:38 GMT
What about using them in a Vlad2 list against Menoth or Circle to get rid of tough and healing/martyred troops? That has been getting in my way a lot lately.
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Post by auraco on Nov 1, 2019 12:43:47 GMT
Don't like them with Vlad2, he does nothing for them. Also you guys are having problem with Harbinger with Vlad2 wolves? It's not an auto win for us but it's definitively a match up where I feel we have the advantage. Wolves is already our theme with the most anti healing tech, there is usually not a lot of threat to Vlad2 so he's free to go nuts on using all his stack of focus every turn for arcane might boost, played the match up several times and never had any issue.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Nov 2, 2019 7:09:41 GMT
Well I apparently really suck, or somehow we are playing against different sorts of lists. My opponent has these guys that have Arm that goes to 21, multiple no knockdown stuff, super high def monks that get places, anti spell tech, and cavalry solos that hit like trucks. One of these things can be easily removed because even if I kill something, Harby Martyrs it. It wastes attacks and resources and clock. Oh and in the meantime, Judi is blasting away from outside of vlads no shooting stuff. Oh and he also has double Archon’s flying around and killing shit. The anti healing tech I’ve had prior to the void Archons, which I haven’t used yet, is the escorts, but that is limited and takes work to apply and is pretty trivially removed.
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