marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Oct 13, 2019 6:39:11 GMT
While I have absolutely no supporting evidence for this it wouldn’t surprise me if Neo Mechanica ends up being a game more along the line of Underworlds/Killteam. Sadly, people seem to be moving away from detailed, mass battle games. The average table top player and “the youth” now wants something that can be picked up and played, all done within an hour. If PP is trying to make another mass battle game, there may be issues I think. I agree, except with your reasoning. While you might be correct, skirmish games are also better balanced for competitive play, which increases the game's longevity. Less moving parts, easier to balance. Still somehow GW manages to not do this
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mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on Oct 16, 2019 13:36:53 GMT
Age of Sigmar is doing OK here. Wargaming is niche, but it seems to be in a bit of a golden age overall.
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Post by beardmonk on Oct 16, 2019 14:28:15 GMT
TBH its felt like for ages that the WM/H community is unhappy or just troubled in general. Noe the PP move has been competed, they need to start smashing it in terms of community engagement, bringing the community out of the rut it feels like its stuck in and making sure their new products get air time and shelf space in the summer period.
If riotquest doesn't really take off and Neo Mechanica doesn't do well, im not sure what the way forward for PP is.
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 16, 2019 17:22:13 GMT
TBH its felt like for ages that the gaming communityis unhappy or just troubled in general. Noe the PP move has been competed, they need to start smashing it in terms of community engagement, bringing the community out of the rut it feels like its stuck in and making sure their new products get air time and shelf space in the summer period. If riotquest doesn't really take off and Neo Mechanica doesn't do well, im not sure what the way forward for PP is. Fixed that for you. I used to really really enjoy gaming, video board wargaming, all of it, but of late i cant stand to be around the people in it. Turn right and they're Female Doging about a game theyve spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on, turn left and they're snivelling about "The SJW's injecting identity politics into everything". I don't think gaming was ever meant to be some huge national or world wide community, i think its best when its you and a handful of friends you have more in common with than just interest in a game.
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Post by beardmonk on Oct 16, 2019 18:16:59 GMT
TBH its felt like for ages that the gaming communityis unhappy or just troubled in general. Noe the PP move has been competed, they need to start smashing it in terms of community engagement, bringing the community out of the rut it feels like its stuck in and making sure their new products get air time and shelf space in the summer period. If riotquest doesn't really take off and Neo Mechanica doesn't do well, im not sure what the way forward for PP is. Fixed that for you. I used to really really enjoy gaming, video board wargaming, all of it, but of late i cant stand to be around the people in it. Turn right and they're Female Doging about a game theyve spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on, turn left and they're snivelling about "The SJW's injecting identity politics into everything". I don't think gaming was ever meant to be some huge national or world wide community, i think its best when its you and a handful of friends you have more in common with than just interest in a game. You make a fair point tbh. Very Fair.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Oct 16, 2019 18:36:27 GMT
If riotquest doesn't really take off and Neo Mechanica doesn't do well, im not sure what the way forward for PP is. I've thought about this a lot recently. They seem to drop support entirely when something doesn't work in the short term. High Command, Company of Iron, and Tactics are all things that could have grabbed a lot of attention in the TCG, Skirmish, and video game communities, but when is the last time any of the above had any kind of update? They could sit on WarmaHordes until they have to fold, it is the cash cow for them. It's just unhealthy to focus everything on one product, especially with how competitive the hobby market is.
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Post by michael on Oct 16, 2019 20:29:08 GMT
If riotquest doesn't really take off and Neo Mechanica doesn't do well, im not sure what the way forward for PP is. I've thought about this a lot recently. They seem to drop support entirely when something doesn't work in the short term. High Command, Company of Iron, and Tactics are all things that could have grabbed a lot of attention in the TCG, Skirmish, and video game communities, but when is the last time any of the above had any kind of update? They could sit on WarmaHordes until they have to fold, it is the cash cow for them. It's just unhealthy to focus everything on one product, especially with how competitive the hobby market is. The people responsible for High Command left Privateer as I recall. Company of Iron is still supported: every applicable new model has CoI rules. Warmachine: Tactics had its own set of problems, and Privateer proper hardly had any input into its operation. Whitemoon Dreams was responsible for that. The Tactics community never fully materialized, probably because a boatload of naysayers and complainers jumped in and strangled a lot of the enthusiasm at critical junctures. But besides that: uh... it is normal for companies to drop support for unprofitable products. Is that surprising?
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Oct 16, 2019 20:55:40 GMT
Honestly, when I try to google "Riot Quest" I get plenty of relevant results? Including the official page, youtube videos, some blog posts and ways to buy it. Though I agree that adding "review" to the search terms muddies t he results. most if not all of the standalone RQ minis have been snatched the second they hit the shelves in MiniMarket, but there's still plenty of stock of the box itself. I'm guessing most of the RQ sales will be people who want to add the new solos to their WMH armies rather than people actually buying into the game. I'm what you could describe as a hard-core WMH player. I buy RQ minis to play RQ. The game is fun and the minis are sweet. That they also work for WMH armies is a bonus.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Oct 16, 2019 20:58:24 GMT
I wonder what the cost today is for prepainted, lower quality, plastic miniatures. HeroScape did it, Wizards of the Coast does it, and even lower quality minis look fine on the table when you're a few feet away. You also need a large playerbase that is willing to buy the minis to make up the cost, and I can't be optimistic in saying that PP has that base. I really like being able to paint my own RQ minis. That said, having the option of pre-painted low-quality plastic would only be good for the game.
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Post by dogganmguest on Oct 17, 2019 8:44:31 GMT
The Tactics community never fully materialized, probably because a boatload of naysayers and complainers jumped in and strangled a lot of the enthusiasm at critical junctures. I know it's in character for you to white knight over to PP's defense and blame the players for every poor outcome, but in this case you might want to step back and actually take a look at the game. It was really Firetrucking terrible. I mean really, not a single good thing to say about it. I paid a dollar or two for it as part of a Humble Bundle, and I still felt ripped off. If I ran WhiteMoon Dreams, I'd've changed the company's name quietly a few years ago.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Oct 17, 2019 9:10:48 GMT
The Tactics community never fully materialized, probably because a boatload of naysayers and complainers jumped in and strangled a lot of the enthusiasm at critical junctures. I know it's in character for you to white knight over to PP's defense and blame the players for every poor outcome, but in this case you might want to step back and actually take a look at the game. It was really Firetrucking terrible. I mean really, not a single good thing to say about it. I paid a dollar or two for it as part of a Humble Bundle, and I still felt ripped off. If I ran WhiteMoon Dreams, I'd've changed the company's name quietly a few years ago. I pledged for the Tactics kickstarter back then, and I played the beta version. It was really bad. The final version was way better, but by the time it was released, most of the beta players left the game. Not a good way to materialize a community.
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Post by michael on Oct 17, 2019 12:34:04 GMT
It’s not called “jumping to PP’s defense like a white knight”, it’s called “presenting a balanced and unbiased accounting of the facts.” The beta version had bugs and the UI was not fantastic. I was right there from day 1 too, fellas. The last time I counted I was responsible for a full 16% of all the bug reports filed on the bug forum. Even considering that: in 2014/2015/2016 Tactics got a great deal of trash talk and all the same derogatory “Would have been better if the devs weren’t so incompetent” observed in this thread, both on their (now closed) forums and on the old PP board. Those same vocal players seemed to have expectations for a AAA-experience PC game title on a budget of like $5M and from a studio of about a dozen people. Big game budgets have been more in the $60+ M budget and hundred-person team range for years now. What could someone reasonably expect? Could it have been better? Yes. Do uninformed people making blisteringly unrealistic comments (similar to what we just observed above) help drive away enthusiasm? Yes. I watched it happen repeatedlyon the old Whitemoon Dreams forum. A new poster would start with “Hey I just heard about this game, how is it?” You’d get one or two positive replies and a bunch of griping from a certain crowd, and that person would disappear... And a few weeks later those same gripers would bemoan how few new players there were and how they had no one to play against! But, you know what? If the community can’t see how their behavior impacts the community, what do I care? I’m going to eat breakfast instead!
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Post by michael on Oct 17, 2019 12:42:04 GMT
I know it's in character for you to white knight over to PP's defense and blame the players for every poor outcome, but in this case you might want to step back and actually take a look at the game. It was really Firetrucking terrible. I mean really, not a single good thing to say about it. I paid a dollar or two for it as part of a Humble Bundle, and I still felt ripped off. If I ran WhiteMoon Dreams, I'd've changed the company's name quietly a few years ago. I pledged for the Tactics kickstarter back then, and I played the beta version. It was really bad. The final version was way better, but by the time it was released, most of the beta players left the game. Not a good way to materialize a community. Probably the most unfortunate circumstance was Steam changing their Early Access rules in 2014 (2015?), forcing Whitemoon Dreams to label Tactics as “released” instead of still in early access beta. That hurt, because it was still in beta! Sadly it was out of their control, though.
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Post by charlzheimer on Oct 17, 2019 13:24:49 GMT
the white moon dreams debacle was legit a small studio trying to force out a tripple A title and failing miserably.
that beeing said. they tried. they legit tried.
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Post by michael on Oct 17, 2019 13:41:08 GMT
the white moon dreams debacle was legit a small studio trying to force out a tripple A title and failing miserably. that beeing said. they tried. they legit tried. I found a lot of the community’s negative response to be incredibly frustrating. Why? Because Tactics was our collective one chance at having digital Warmachine, ever. If players had rallied around the game, acknowledging it wasn’t yet perfect, but had provided enthusiasm and support (like with No Man’s Sky, Star Citizen, et al.) instead of doing, well, the same old crap the bad parts of the WM/H community always does, then Tactics would have probably been okay! Instead, our hopes of any more Warmachine video games were instead brutally executed in a dark alley. Like, Privateer is never going to attempt another video game after that failure. Did the jackholes think about that before saying trash like “Whitemoon Dreams should have quietly changed their names”, or did their shortsighted ignorance create a self-fulfilling prophecy? Hmm. Food for thought.
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