zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 23, 2019 21:52:22 GMT
it is a lital known but treu science fact dat not errybody at wtc knows wat dey doin out der.
but even dose guys kno caine2 is worst casster
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Post by greytemplar on Sept 24, 2019 4:47:00 GMT
WTC skews the actual game balance because of the team nature of the event. The fact you can avoid certain bad matchups and get into favorable ones means that certain strategies that are poor in a normal Steamroller can be viable. That is why you always see a fair amount of jank in the WTC, and why its not necessarily a good idea to just copy a WTC list.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Sept 24, 2019 7:09:19 GMT
it is a lital known but treu science fact dat not errybody at wtc knows wat dey doin out der. but even dose guys kno caine2 is worst casster No, even the dogs knows Blaize is much worse than him. It does not means Caine2 is not that bad or even good for now, but even him seems good when you compare him with Blaize. At least Caine2 is a functional Warcaster model, unlike Blaize. Well, if you mean 'she is not eligible to be listed on the worst caster because she is not even a warcaster' then I will agree, though.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Sept 24, 2019 9:32:04 GMT
WTC skews the actual game balance because of the team nature of the event. The fact you can avoid certain bad matchups and get into favorable ones means that certain strategies that are poor in a normal Steamroller can be viable. That is why you always see a fair amount of jank in the WTC, and why its not necessarily a good idea to just copy a WTC list. I really don't understand this perception. Have you ever played in a team tournament? If you or your team have favorable matchups, then what about the other half of the players?? Not everyone can have good mathups, it doesn't make sense to me. Sure you might play against the faction you prefer sometimes, but not guaranteed at all. At the end of the day you are still just playing a standard 1v1 SR and jank can only take you so far.. There is a reason the vast majority take all the good lists - which you see both at WTC and any other SR event.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Sept 24, 2019 10:01:29 GMT
There have been several WTC-players on podcast and forumes stating that you usually take the strongest list there is, and that the team jank is less normal than people expect. Yes you can manipulate a little in the pairing process, but you still want the strongest lists. Looking at the list over the years, that seems correct. Edit: for some reason i cant delete the quote sections below...
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Post by greytemplar on Sept 24, 2019 16:22:52 GMT
WTC skews the actual game balance because of the team nature of the event. The fact you can avoid certain bad matchups and get into favorable ones means that certain strategies that are poor in a normal Steamroller can be viable. That is why you always see a fair amount of jank in the WTC, and why its not necessarily a good idea to just copy a WTC list. I really don't understand this perception. Have you ever played in a team tournament? If you or your team have favorable matchups, then what about the other half of the players?? Not everyone can have good mathups, it doesn't make sense to me. Sure you might play against the faction you prefer sometimes, but not guaranteed at all. At the end of the day you are still just playing a standard 1v1 SR and jank can only take you so far.. There is a reason the vast majority take all the good lists - which you see both at WTC and any other SR event. No. It’s not guaranteed. But the fact that any control exists at all skews the performance and list selection.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 24, 2019 18:35:38 GMT
uote author=" droopingpuppy" source="/post/138946/thread" timestamp="1569308959"][qute author=" zhoe" source="/post/138939/thread" timestamp="1569275542"]it is a lital known but treu science fact dat not errybody at wtc knows wat dey doin out der. but even dose guys kno caine2 is worst casster[/quote] No, even the dogs knows Blaize is much worse than him. It does not means Caine2 is not that bad or even good for now, but even him seems good when you compare him with Blaize. At least Caine2 is a functional Warcaster model, unlike Blaize. Well, if you mean 'she is not eligible to be listed on the worst caster because she is not even a warcaster' then I will agree, though.[/quot br] u realize blaize runs teh 15" thret blesd wepon massters rite. dats even befor oter bufs. liek 22 of dem and asso 10 "legions of lost shit" who asso hit purty hard and go 16^^ dats sum scary stuf rite der
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Post by sand20go on Sept 24, 2019 23:35:28 GMT
uote author=" droopingpuppy " source="/post/138946/thread" timestamp="1569308959"][qute author=" zhoe " source="/post/138939/thread" timestamp="1569275542"]it is a lital known but treu science fact dat not errybody at wtc knows wat dey doin out der. but even dose guys kno caine2 is worst casster No, even the dogs knows Blaize is much worse than him. It does not means Caine2 is not that bad or even good for now, but even him seems good when you compare him with Blaize. At least Caine2 is a functional Warcaster model, unlike Blaize. Well, if you mean 'she is not eligible to be listed on the worst caster because she is not even a warcaster' then I will agree, though.[/quot br] u realize blaize runs teh 15" thret blesd wepon massters rite. dats even befor oter bufs. liek 22 of dem and asso 10 "legions of lost shit" who asso hit purty hard and go 16^^ dats sum scary stuf rite der[/quote] Neither is worse than Butcher 2. Only caster in the game with variable focus. Wait till you roll 1 3 times in a roll for your MIGHTY Focus 2.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 25, 2019 3:30:14 GMT
[/quote]
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Post by droopingpuppy on Sept 25, 2019 6:27:26 GMT
u realize blaize runs teh 15" thret blesd wepon massters rite. dats even befor oter bufs. liek 22 of dem and asso 10 "legions of lost shit" who asso hit purty hard and go 16^^ dats sum scary stuf rite der I am fully aware of it, but that doesn't change the truth sir. Personal prowess of the warcaster is not important, unless you can use it other than your last turn or the warcaster actually have the plan for the assassination run personally. If you only want to compare the personal prowess, Caine1/2 are simply one of the best casters for he can shoot down the enemy and retreat safely all the times, but are they so popular? Zoktavir1/3(well, is Butcher1/3 correct?) are the another example that the personal prowess of the warcaster is worthwhile - because his own melee capability is too devastating, it is worth enough to throw him and dispatch the most hard target and the rest of them are concentrated on support him. He is also tough enough to take some less hits too, although he is not the best tough guys among the warcaster/warlock groups. Stryker2 can't use his nova melee attack all the times, but has weird vector on the assassination run. Gibbs may allow him to Overload once more, though. And, I don't think that hit harder seems much an issue on here. Cygnar already have some casters that buffs melee damage rolls. Perhaps longer charge distance does? But do you desperately need it to forfeit the another advantages to choose the other warcasters? I don't think so. Also, sorry if I didn't understand you correctly, for I am not a native english speaker and I am bad at grammar too, so it is not so easy to read broken english(although it is clear that it is intended).
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Post by kjata on Sept 25, 2019 7:09:47 GMT
The gibbs/Stryker combo is really strong. I used it a bit, and if colossals have got you down with cygnar, that's a hell of an answer. He can fairly handily kill a colossal with a charge and 4 bought attacks if you roll decently on the overload, and then you can velocity 3 times and then feat to get even farther away (as well as jam more shit into the opponent so you don't die with your naked caster). I've also used Stryker overloading with one dice to kill heavies. He can often overload multiple times a game, and thinking of it as purely an assassination tool is a mistake.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Sept 25, 2019 8:14:08 GMT
Although you need Gibbs, but sure, many people are forgot that he is not required to roll three dice when he use Overload. He don't always need to burn out all his damage box, and when his target is not that hard it is enough to roll for one or two dice, dismantile the target then retreat backward.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 25, 2019 11:12:40 GMT
Can't wait for the Thamarite Advocate, healing Stryker 2 for d3 each time an enemy model dies, plus mat 8 from the Morrowan Archon, and def 20 no KD when yiu combine blinding radiance and ol rowdy, worth a go at least
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Post by marxlives on Sept 25, 2019 14:24:32 GMT
Carver is definitely not even close to being a worst caster. IMO, the only reason he isn't in A+, or even S tier, is because he is a Minion Warlock, but that really applies to all of the Minions really. If you put him in another faction, he would be absolutely amazing. Mobility and Batten Down the Hatches alone makes him a great battlegroup caster. If you really want a garbage caster, Malakus is a contender. When you look at his kit individually, it looks like maybe it could be good. Then you realize that you can't really use all of his tools together in a cohesive manner. Even outside Protectorate he would struggle to have relevance even if you could cherry pick a faction for him. You can't use Open Fire effectively because he has no to hit buffs, other than the insanely expensive Scourge which precludes you from using Open fire enough to make it worthwhile. And Open Fire is on top of all that overpriced for a spell that has such a crippling limitation. His feat buffs fire damage, but damage isn't the problem. Hitting is the main problem. And he does nothing to help with that other than a massively overpriced knockdown spell. And to add a little more insult he has Ignite, another damage buff. Which is fine and all, but it just rams the point home that damage is not a problem. He's really just an incoherent mess of a caster that lacks any vision for what he is supposed to be doing. So instead of turning the fire theme into what could have easily been a nicely concise and focused caster just ends up being a mess of random fire buff's and abilities that don't work together at all. What's really sad is he is so close to being good. A few minor verbege tweaks would make him a great ranged caster. Change Open Fire to be Cost 1 and change his feat to also give a +2 to ranged attack rolls with a Fire/Critial Fire damage type weapon and he'd have an actual niche as a gunline caster. So Feora....stole his light!
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Post by marxlives on Sept 25, 2019 14:33:38 GMT
Nobody is advocating for PP to fail.
Some people are saying PP is making mistakes. But thats not what this thread is about. its about just which casters you think are bad.
This. Although many people in here are got angry aganist PP, due to the reason of the foundation of this forum, but that's not the point on the thread. And, well, I hate PP right now, sure, for it is not a secret. But, hey, if I just want to quit the game and don't want to ever look back I didn't join the forum either. I don't think that most of 'PP Haters' in Lormahordes are far from that. Anyway, back to the topic, Blaize still don't doing well. Actually some point of her change is even worse. Well, finally she have some Morrowan stuffs, especially for non-fragile melee unit. But she provide not much of a merit for them. She may give some of, but most Cygnar or Mercenary casters are already do far better than her. Although he is nerfed to the ground, at least Caine2 is a super solo, that still works similar to MKII ways. But you know, Blaize is even worse than her MKII debut version in overall. Is it even a match? I don't think so. Ha, at least on her first version in Wrath there is a way to play her in Mercenary, although it was mediocre and corner cased solution. For now, taking her means you are taunt the opponent that you can win a game without a warcaster, for she is like as a Solo model with 10+ damage box and Battlegroup Controller with FOCUS 6. Yes, she would be a super solo, but in the game that everyone have a warcastet or a warlock she can't give any merit over forfeit that. I didn't really thin this was a negative thread. I can't think of one game, with PP scope of models, where every model is an auto-include (Urban Mech' I love you). Best you can hope for is that some models on the outlier of competitiveness have a weird niche build that makes them interesting. While I can see the community avoiding toxicity, at the same time we cannot be so sensitive that we over respond to a slight ribbing. Let's have fun with this, at the expense of Blaize's feeling of course.
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