crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Sept 16, 2019 20:55:43 GMT
It’s also doubly funny when you consider what the previous thread is... apparently I can take a random malifaux model and call him a hermit, but if I put him on an angled base, that’s going too far? This whole thread is about tournament legality. Everything is EO discretion at a tournament, and you just kinda have to accept it. Well, there are two questions here. "Are you allowed to use angled lipped bases at a tournament" to which the answer is clearly "no" according to steamroller rules** and "should you be allowed to use angled lipped bases at a tournament," to which my opinion is that there isn't really a compelling reason why not. None of the rationales for this rule I've ever seen presented are particularly compelling (and many of these rationales make little sense), so it is in my opinion an unnecessary restriction. And we all have our own opinions as to which rules it would be better if PP changed; if it weren't for that, CID would be quite a boring process. **the exception to that is, of course, if the community as a whole starts accepting things which aren't precisely in accordance with the letter of the rules. Which, judging by the internet chatter they seem to be willing to do in some areas for things like proxying the Hermit and BAHI-Europe, but an angled-lipped base is a step too far, which I find... peculiar, to say the least.
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 16, 2019 22:51:01 GMT
DIS IS VERRY POINTLASS AND BORING¡!
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Post by michael on Sept 17, 2019 11:58:16 GMT
DIS IS VERRY POINTLASS AND BORING¡! NO! WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO ARGUE ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM AND WILL NEVER CHANGE, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE OP NEVER ACTUALLY EXPLAINED WHY HE WAS COMPLAINING OR PROVIDED ANY RATIONAL ARGUMENTS TO SUPPORT HIS POSITION, WHATEVER IT WAS!
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Sept 17, 2019 13:01:20 GMT
DIS IS VERRY POINTLASS AND BORING¡! Stop being the voice of reason, its quite disturbing!
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Post by marxlives on Sept 17, 2019 14:53:43 GMT
There are round lipped cusom bases. American 28mm vs. European. The rest is opinion. I think the European sloped bases are ugly AF. Especially when it comes to non-custom bases. Flocking on a sloped bases is unprotected and looks like junk. Also makes it difficult to mark facing with looking awful. See, opinion. First, while I didn’t say they didn’t exist, however there are a lot of third party bases that are only available in one style or the other. It would open up people’s options if they could just use whatever so long as the bases are the correct size. If you find a base you really like but is only available in angled-lipped, that would suck. As for opinion, that is fair, but why is it that your personal opinion and the opinions of a few others in these thread that round-lipped bases look better is a legitimate reason for there to be a rule outlawing bases of the correct size but a different style, even though it can just as well fulfill all gameplay requirements (size, arcs, etc). If we compare that to painting requirements, my opinion is that painted models are aesthetically more pleasing and I would like to see more fully painted events. However, the general consensus is that expressing that makes you a dirty paint-shamer and how dare you tell someone what to do with their models if it doesn’t have a gameplay impact. If “paint-shaming” is a thing, then shouldn’t criticizing people for using angled-lipped bases when it doesn’t make a gameplay difference count as “base-shaming”? I’ve still yet to see a compelling reason other than “because PP says so,” and I feel like “some people like angled lipped bases” is a good enough reason to reconsider this requirement. Opinions proving why there needs to be arbitrary standards to just establish a standard to begin with in action.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Sept 17, 2019 19:25:23 GMT
It's the rule because Privateer Press said it was the rule.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Sept 17, 2019 21:35:06 GMT
It's the rule because Privateer Press said it was the rule. I’m not disputing that, I just don’t think it should be a rule because there aren’t really any gameplay justifications for it so long as bases are the correct size, and it can inconvenience players who for whatever reason like a different base style. However, while I don’t think it should be the rule, I put my army on round-lipped bases anyways.
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Sept 17, 2019 23:59:54 GMT
It's the rule because Privateer Press said it was the rule. I’m not disputing that, I just don’t think it should be a rule because there aren’t really any gameplay justifications for it so long as bases are the correct size, and it can inconvenience players who for whatever reason like a different base style. However, while I don’t think it should be the rule, I put my army on round-lipped bases anyways. You can play however you want. You can play that Juggernauts have Arc Nodes. You can play that Headbutts can affect larger base sizes. You can play that Gorten has FOC 9. You just won't be playing the same game the rest of us are. As a community, we agree to play by the same rules because we want to play the same game. We also agree that Privateer Press is the writer and arbiter of those rules. Yes, you can play by whatever rules you want. Of course, all the rules alterations you want to play with need to be approved by your opponent. What small rules-alterations are acceptable differ by the expectations of the game. Pickup/practice matches to try out new lists on a weekday evening? Proxies are usually acceptable. Fully painted, national level tournament? Don't expect to show up with a mono-tone army that still reeks of primer and be allowed to play. If you and your opponent don't have an agreed-upon set of rules, you aren't playing the same game.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Sept 18, 2019 8:58:39 GMT
When you search for "scenic 30mm bases" the first page features lipped bases from a variety of manufacturers. For 40 and 50mm I had to add "lipped" to the search task.
This rule, dumb as it is, doesn't seem to effect the modeller who likes to use premade scenic bases. Unless of course, heaven forbid, they bought them angled before they realised this was even an issue.
I am curious as to the why behind this rule.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Sept 18, 2019 13:37:57 GMT
It's the rule because Privateer Press said it was the rule. However, while I don’t think it should be the rule, I put my army on round-lipped bases anyways. I don't think d6 should be the rule. d8's roll better, d20's allow for way more results, but PP said d6, so we all roll the d6 with our models on round lip bases.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Sept 18, 2019 14:31:21 GMT
Right. Because a rule that affects nothing but a fairly minor aesthetic preference is the exact same as fundamentally changing the core gameplay rules.
Not sure why everyone is getting so angry at me over having a different opinion on such a minor rule considering people talk about what rules they like and don't like and would like to see changed all the time; the fact that rules can change is why we have CID, errata, new editions, and annual changes to the tournament packets.
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Sept 19, 2019 0:26:10 GMT
However, while I don’t think it should be the rule, I put my army on round-lipped bases anyways. I don't think d6 should be the rule. d8's roll better, d20's allow for way more results, but PP said d6, so we all roll the d6 with our models on round lip bases. Thank you! I've been resisting making that comment.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Sept 19, 2019 0:42:48 GMT
It was tongue in cheek, but he took it a little serious. Should probably do the reddit thing and put a /s any time I write some hyperbolic statement here.
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on Oct 13, 2019 10:19:22 GMT
Privateer switched base vendors around 2010. The old, un-textured, “generic” bases were a true 30mm, and all of the post-2010 “textured” bases with the pattern on top and PP logo on bottom are like 30.2mm or something. And actually to be completely accurate, they switched twice, because there was a period of maybe 6-8 months in 2009-ish when a third base brand was in there, similar but not quite identical to the original “generic” bases. No, I’m not going to go digging through all my models for photographic evidence. This is kinda my issue. I put washers on my topheavy model bases and i am not keen on breaking out a micrometer every time. I thought for a company with such solid rules and reasonable conversion rules this was a peculiar outlier. Not mad, no drama, just odd. To further answer questions Zhoe is blocked because he posts ninsense. Stop fishing for drama. I found it odd as mang other here apparently do as well..
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