cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Sept 10, 2019 11:49:17 GMT
The WTC lists are out. Sadly a poor showing by Cygnar with only 11 players. Not surprising with what we have available at the moment. Hopefully it will swing towards better when the upcoming new releases arrive. Difficult to ready a lot into the few players. Siege and Sloane is no surprise. I would have expected a little more stryker2, but maybe he is waiting for the new morrow themes. conflictchamber.com/?event=982
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Post by marxlives on Sept 10, 2019 15:45:58 GMT
It comes and it goes. I think most of it is older players digging into hotness.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 10, 2019 19:38:21 GMT
Oblivion update did little to nothing to solve Cygnars issues, WTC stats are not a suprise tbh
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Sept 10, 2019 21:33:39 GMT
Hey at least you still had more than Trollbloods. Wowsers...
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Sept 11, 2019 7:59:56 GMT
Playing Trolls and Cygnar ... well I think Cygnar is absolutely strong right now. The reason is not any updates or the solving of any "problems". It is that you see Clockatrices and Infernals and Tharn. All things that hate shooting especially scalpeling out key pieces. So if you have a good second list covering Carapace Slayers and mass anti shooting coupled with a list that puts the ranged hurt on your enemy, I think that Cygnar could do very well. It's probably just the same kind of tiredness that Trolls also have and if no one innovates you are stuck with the same old lists that pros know how to counter.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Sept 11, 2019 11:00:44 GMT
Playing Trolls and Cygnar ... well I think Cygnar is absolutely strong right now. The reason is not any updates or the solving of any "problems". It is that you see Clockatrices and Infernals and Tharn. All things that hate shooting especially scalpeling out key pieces. So if you have a good second list covering Carapace Slayers and mass anti shooting coupled with a list that puts the ranged hurt on your enemy, I think that Cygnar could do very well. It's probably just the same kind of tiredness that Trolls also have and if no one innovates you are stuck with the same old lists that pros know how to counter. There is some innovation though. Didn't Anthony Gibbs retool Sloan 5x5 into the triforce and then into his Hearts of Darkness Sloan list? That being said there is currently much to be explored with e.g. Kraye in all themes, Heavy Metal as an infantry theme with the likes of Haley3 or stryker2, the entirety of Flames... To say that oblivion did nothing for the faction (as cygnar guy said) is just plain false. People need to get to the table and explore things.
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Post by michael on Sept 11, 2019 12:51:33 GMT
As I posted elsewhere: the question should not be “Why does Cygnar suck?”, but rather “Why do only 2 of 18 factions compose roughly 30% of all lists?”
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Post by kjata on Sept 13, 2019 20:40:22 GMT
That's how it's always been. Mk2 had cryx taking up a significant portion. Something doesn't even have to be significantly more powerful to be significantly more represented. If I own 2+ factions and I'm going to a big competitive event, I'm going to play the stronger one, even if it's only like a 5% increase. Perfect balance is impossible, something is always going to be the strongest, and whatever is the strongest is going to be presented disproportionately to the difference in power, because people are going to get every advantage they can.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Sept 14, 2019 13:08:21 GMT
As I posted elsewhere: the question should not be “Why does Cygnar suck?”, but rather “Why do only 2 of 18 factions compose roughly 30% of all lists?” Good point and I'd say that is because those factions have horribly overtuned models like the clock cluck, Dawn Mower, ect. and I as a Cygnar enthusiast I honestly prefer Cygnar not having those. If someone asked me the question if i wanted my faction to be "viable* but unbalanced" or "balanced, but not viable*", I'd go for the latter any day. That is not to say that I wouldn't want reasonable changes to heavy jacks, non partisan heavy metal units and Storm Division. *In a competitive setting.
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Post by marxlives on Sept 16, 2019 18:21:10 GMT
Playing Trolls and Cygnar ... well I think Cygnar is absolutely strong right now. The reason is not any updates or the solving of any "problems". It is that you see Clockatrices and Infernals and Tharn. All things that hate shooting especially scalpeling out key pieces. So if you have a good second list covering Carapace Slayers and mass anti shooting coupled with a list that puts the ranged hurt on your enemy, I think that Cygnar could do very well. It's probably just the same kind of tiredness that Trolls also have and if no one innovates you are stuck with the same old lists that pros know how to counter. This true, Grymkin deliver the melee warbeast wise but their armor is so low you can shoot them off the table. With trolls I see the same thing. No a lot of experimentation going on. Stonebearers are a given with every list but the worst thing I see is Troll players don't know when to sacrifice them. By turn 3, you should be using them to block charges and engage in piece trading.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 16, 2019 21:50:14 GMT
Playing Trolls and Cygnar ... well I think Cygnar is absolutely strong right now. The reason is not any updates or the solving of any "problems". It is that you see Clockatrices and Infernals and Tharn. All things that hate shooting especially scalpeling out key pieces. So if you have a good second list covering Carapace Slayers and mass anti shooting coupled with a list that puts the ranged hurt on your enemy, I think that Cygnar could do very well. It's probably just the same kind of tiredness that Trolls also have and if no one innovates you are stuck with the same old lists that pros know how to counter. This true, Grymkin deliver the melee warbeast wise but their armor is so low you can shoot them off the table. With trolls I see the same thing. No a lot of experimentation going on. Stonebearers are a given with every list but the worst thing I see is Troll players don't know when to sacrifice them. By turn 3, you should be using them to block charges and engage in piece trading. Def 13 armour 20 Clocks are not easy to shoot of the table, especially when you then stack Shield Guards, Cover from Artifice or Concealment from Fog of War, or just a cloud wall with Burning Ash
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Post by kjata on Sept 16, 2019 22:06:34 GMT
Not to mention the stealth arcana.
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Post by marxlives on Sept 17, 2019 14:51:38 GMT
This true, Grymkin deliver the melee warbeast wise but their armor is so low you can shoot them off the table. With trolls I see the same thing. No a lot of experimentation going on. Stonebearers are a given with every list but the worst thing I see is Troll players don't know when to sacrifice them. By turn 3, you should be using them to block charges and engage in piece trading. Def 13 armour 20 Clocks are not easy to shoot of the table, especially when you then stack Shield Guards, Cover from Artifice or Concealment from Fog of War, or just a cloud wall with Burning Ash I beg to differ.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Sept 17, 2019 18:15:52 GMT
This true, Grymkin deliver the melee warbeast wise but their armor is so low you can shoot them off the table. With trolls I see the same thing. No a lot of experimentation going on. Stonebearers are a given with every list but the worst thing I see is Troll players don't know when to sacrifice them. By turn 3, you should be using them to block charges and engage in piece trading. Def 13 armour 20 Clocks are not easy to shoot of the table, especially when you then stack Shield Guards, Cover from Artifice or Concealment from Fog of War, or just a cloud wall with Burning Ash Then a Judicator walks up and 2 shots a Clockatrice...
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 17, 2019 20:10:49 GMT
Def 13 armour 20 Clocks are not easy to shoot of the table, especially when you then stack Shield Guards, Cover from Artifice or Concealment from Fog of War, or just a cloud wall with Burning Ash Then a Judicator walks up and 2 shots a Clockatrice... I wouldn't know, my Collossals aren't as good...
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