shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Nov 3, 2019 19:26:28 GMT
it's crossed my mind that now with Makeda3 existing, there doesn't seem to be an excuse anymore why Madrak2's feat shouldn't affect him anymore. He might've been incredibly strong in MK2/early MK3, but nowadays even with the feat he doesn't strike me as that impressive. What do all of you think?
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Post by robbleyourworld on Nov 3, 2019 23:08:28 GMT
it's crossed my mind that now with Makeda3 existing, there doesn't seem to be an excuse anymore why Madrak2's feat shouldn't affect him anymore. He might've been incredibly strong in MK2/early MK3, but nowadays even with the feat he doesn't strike me as that impressive. What do all of you think? You forgot he has tough, clearly he'd be too good. In seriousness though you're probably partially correct. His original feat + Rathrok's Awakening had the issue of letting him have a bazillion fury as well as surfing but if you capped it with his fury stat it would probably be fine.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Nov 4, 2019 5:16:14 GMT
Troll models, tactics, and variety of play would benefit from CREATIVE ways to provide unique roles/answers. Even if it means additional models to buy. Example: Highwaymen CA grants: Double Barrel: [*Attack] Can make one initial ranged attack, that ranged attack gains Grievous Wounds. Sluggers CA grants: Gain Volume Fire. Burrowers WA: Drill Pyg: each adds +1" to marker movement (FA3). Drill Pyg has Crit Stationary. Bushwhackers WA: Repackage CA Mortar model, FA2. Runeshapers: Weaponmasters VS Constructs So many available models to improve, and make unique.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 4, 2019 12:53:53 GMT
it's crossed my mind that now with Makeda3 existing, there doesn't seem to be an excuse anymore why Madrak2's feat shouldn't affect him anymore. He might've been incredibly strong in MK2/early MK3, but nowadays even with the feat he doesn't strike me as that impressive. What do all of you think? Madrak 2s old feat is WAY more broken than Makeda 3. He actually gained fury each time he killed something (and got the additional attack for free from berserk). He could easily surf, then get to something big with 20 fury on him, kill that big thing and then continue surfing. Makeda 3 actually stops after having to spend her fury, and she wont reach a colossal with 20 fury on her.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Nov 4, 2019 13:06:13 GMT
it's crossed my mind that now with Makeda3 existing, there doesn't seem to be an excuse anymore why Madrak2's feat shouldn't affect him anymore. He might've been incredibly strong in MK2/early MK3, but nowadays even with the feat he doesn't strike me as that impressive. What do all of you think? Madrak 2s old feat is WAY more broken than Makeda 3. He actually gained fury each time he killed something (and got the additional attack for free from berserk). He could easily surf, then get to something big with 20 fury on him, kill that big thing and then continue surfing. Makeda 3 actually stops after having to spend her fury, and she wont reach a colossal with 20 fury on her. It was mentioned that it would be his old feat with the caveat that he does not gain Fury. Or, you just reword Awakening to state he cannot gain more than his base fury stat, which is what they should have done to "fix" it in the first place, IMO.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Nov 4, 2019 13:16:58 GMT
Madrak 2s old feat is WAY more broken than Makeda 3. He actually gained fury each time he killed something (and got the additional attack for free from berserk). He could easily surf, then get to something big with 20 fury on him, kill that big thing and then continue surfing. Makeda 3 actually stops after having to spend her fury, and she wont reach a colossal with 20 fury on her. It was mentioned that it would be his old feat with the caveat that he does not gain Fury. Or, you just reword Awakening to state he cannot gain more than his base fury stat, which is what they should have done to "fix" it in the first place, IMO. didn't consider the implication of berserk+rathrok, my bad. I think the feat should at least give him overtake, and reword rathrok's bonus fury in such a way that he can't go past his fury cap. that way he'd essentially be the same as Makeda3. and if you think that's still to powerful, welllllll........ CiD, huh.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Nov 4, 2019 13:33:41 GMT
Troll models, tactics, and variety of play would benefit from CREATIVE ways to provide unique roles/answers. Even if it means additional models to buy. Example: Highwaymen CA grants: Double Barrel: [*Attack] Can make one initial ranged attack, that ranged attack gains Grievous Wounds. Sluggers CA grants: Gain Volume Fire. Burrowers WA: Drill Pyg: each adds +1" to marker movement (FA3). Drill Pyg has Crit Stationary. Bushwhackers WA: Repackage CA Mortar model, FA2. Runeshapers: Weaponmasters VS Constructs So many available models to improve, and make unique. yea, I think CAs have been long overdue for all of these units. and most of those sound more interesting than what I managed to come up with so far, which inevitably boils down to 'CA with power swell minifeat'. bushwackers with mortar WAs sound like a great idea, you could run what is essentially a vlad rocketeer list in CK.
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Post by emb on Nov 8, 2019 1:28:50 GMT
*cough* a CA that gives Warders Weaponmaster and Righteous Fury *cough*
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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 8, 2019 2:51:56 GMT
*cough* a CA that gives Warders Weaponmaster and Righteous Fury *cough* I'd rather they gain rapid healing than weapon master, and maybe sturdy to give them scenario presence. With a stronger scenario presence and more staying power they might be worth running more.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Nov 8, 2019 13:40:25 GMT
*cough* a CA that gives Warders Weaponmaster and Righteous Fury *cough* I'd rather they gain rapid healing than weapon master, and maybe sturdy to give them scenario presence. With a stronger scenario presence and more staying power they might be worth running more. I'll second that, I'd also rather see Warders have their defensive bulk improved to keep them distinct from Champions. Vengeance and rapid healing could be cool, although I have to say it bothers me that Tharn Ravagers have rapid healing but champs don't. Even with the extra survivability I don't know if the warders would be a better pick than Valkyries.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Nov 8, 2019 15:38:47 GMT
lol. It bothers me that Tharn have rapid healing AT ALL. There's basically no justification for it, they worship Devourer, their bonuses should be offensive.
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Post by Bomma on Nov 8, 2019 23:09:17 GMT
A generic arc node. Whether it's a heavy like minions have, or a one off like Legion has, or some sort of sorcerous ability on a solo that survives. A generic arc node that could be taken across themes would do a metric ton of work towards improving troll position. That said, I like my Trolls, I like playing my Trolls, and i don't think they are singularly bad. I do not understand the the thought process behind "My faction isn't 57% of the WTC, it must suck" mindset. But that's personal opinions and conversations to be had at LGSs. The faction really need an acrnode.. :-( B.
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Post by emb on Nov 9, 2019 6:32:13 GMT
I'd rather they gain rapid healing than weapon master, and maybe sturdy to give them scenario presence. With a stronger scenario presence and more staying power they might be worth running more. I'll second that, I'd also rather see Warders have their defensive bulk improved to keep them distinct from Champions. Vengeance and rapid healing could be cool, although I have to say it bothers me that Tharn Ravagers have rapid healing but champs don't. Even with the extra survivability I don't know if the warders would be a better pick than Valkyries. Sorry. Definitely a joke about Mk.2 WM Warders (pre-nerf...ooh, and they had 8 boxes then too). And yeah, seems to me that the only time Warders are better than Valkyries is cracking armor on the charge under Krielstone, which most likely means that they're out of range to do any good as shield guards.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Nov 13, 2019 14:27:32 GMT
I think we just need a few points off of units. Especially the stone would make a big difference. Or the mentioned warders: their main sadness is being 2 points more than Valkyries. On the other hand if you compare stats Trolls are not as stone taxed as one would think. It is more that we do not have enough stuff on the table, I think we pay big for tough as was pointed out here: museonminis.com/the-meta-episo…h-faye-reppas-john-henry/ This was posted on page5.de I do not know if it was posted here already. Very interesting episode. Faye might well be able to get her point of point cost across at one point
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Post by josephkerr on Nov 13, 2019 15:56:51 GMT
I think we just need a few points off of units. Especially the stone would make a big difference. Or the mentioned warders: their main sadness is being 2 points more than Valkyries. On the other hand if you compare stats Trolls are not as stone taxed as one would think. It is more that we do not have enough stuff on the table, I think we pay big for tough as was pointed out here: museonminis.com/the-meta-episo…h-faye-reppas-john-henry/ This was posted on page5.de I do not know if it was posted here already. Very interesting episode. Faye might well be able to get her point of point cost across at one point Not just tough but army wide medium bases. Sure, little harder to maneuver, but the benefits of taking up extra space and being immune to trample are really nice.
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