snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Sept 17, 2019 7:53:23 GMT
Define meta. I run Jarl locally because we have a harby player that is an ungodly terror and I do well with him there. I've gotten enough reps to get good into other things as well. would that list be able to compete at Warfaire Weekend.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So I presume that you are referring to the national/world meta. And that's the issue right? Trolls aren't placing in those outings very well. so are the things trolls do well not what does well in that meta? And if so, what would you have people do? I'm more of a find a niche', play the ever loving expletive out of it, and be the best you can. I may not have better stuff than you, but I'm going to know how it works a whole lot better. I've never had a curb stomp faction though, so maybe that's the disconnect. What does your Jarl list look like? Harby is still kind of a boogeyman!
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Post by allinontrolls on Sept 19, 2019 15:00:33 GMT
I am interested to hear about boomhowler2 and His effect on Troll lists.
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Post by moridamn on Sept 19, 2019 16:19:32 GMT
I've used boomhowler2 a little bit and thus far I like him. His repo3 shout helps the stone positioning on warlocks who cant afford to feed it as much and repo on champions is very nice for charging and regrouping.
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Post by allinontrolls on Sept 19, 2019 17:35:54 GMT
I am Not sure about the wall. It sounds really strong and nice.
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snot
Light Addition
Posts: 63
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Post by snot on Sept 19, 2019 18:11:42 GMT
I had a long debate with myself on takin my beloved trolls to this WTC. In the end i had to decide against this option for the following reasons: 1. we are playing loads of points down. I always feel outnumbered by far, regardless if i play beastheavy or not. Only Sotn kinda is OK pointwise 2. We cannot alpha hard enough anymore to sustain the momentum. In theory doomy2 should rock the bahi meta...but its not working 3. we need to buff ourselves to levels where others start...and need to pay for that in addition. You feel the powercreep if you compare to the top 5 (circle, grymkin, Menoth, Ret, Skorne) 4. Most units are simply crap compared and i played grissel1 too long to go back to her. Imho she should be awesome in Sotn with KW, but... dont know. maybe i played this for too long 5. Metacasters/lists. Harby Firetrucks your list selection hard. There are not many counters and now with the retarded paladins and hermit oneshotting and shooting her is basically a dead option. Rasheth is not playable unless you bring Kolgrimma imho. U get Firetrucked by turtles and even bounce off them in return Tree/baldur..basically circle. Devourers host is so off against us. Dont have a good answer. Playing grim2 could be, but playing him is like trying to start your car with breaks on. Retribution+Tridents...we are outnumbered and shot down if you dont take antishooty. And then its most of the time hard to kill enough before you go down. Hermit the retarded stops our assassination potential cold. we dont have enough steam to first kill him and then go for assassination unless u tech especially for that (swamptrolls, pygs e.g.) Grymkin...outnumbered, threat by unkillable chickens of doom which cost less than all of our heavies. I would have played the granny pair on WTC which may have worked, but i was feeling i was having more fun currently playing ret :\. And thats coming from the guy who brought the bear BEFORE he was good to WTC.
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Sept 20, 2019 5:55:48 GMT
Boomhowler2 is really nice model, but have really tough combatants (auto-include on KC as don't take minion slot). Repo for stone at first turn helps is to get on positions and still be able to awaken stone. Solid gun and table control trolls haven't had before. Pow10 is a bit weak, so arm18 (for example minifeat sentinels) infantry and multiwound infantry can charge through covering fire. I have now played him with Borka2 to give some protection against WM-infantry and RAT7 with HHH is always nice
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Post by mandra on Oct 7, 2019 15:59:41 GMT
How long trolls have been in this situation?There are rumors for an improvement of our faction?
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Post by dickovdk on Oct 8, 2019 8:30:00 GMT
How long trolls have been in this situation?There are rumors for an improvement of our faction? Lets be honest - its been like this since approximately 1 month after Northkin CID. We got Madrak1/Grim1/Borka2 and Champs changed back then, and people did not know how to handle Champions. It took about a month or so to find the solution. its not like we have all crappy things, I mean Bears are great, Raiders fine etc its just everything else is just better. Currently our war wagons are really great but then again they aren't as good as Ret or Skorne. And thats the whole story I think. We are decent across the board but nothing more than decent. Will that change - my guess is no it will not - I mean if you look at the models before CID they also did not work in "that" state and most of them haven't changed. So Trolls are not getting a overhauling which I feel they frankly need.
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Post by allinontrolls on Oct 8, 2019 8:57:52 GMT
We really struggle cause of the Stone. To help trolls they should rework the stone and remove the +2 Arm and just give every Model in Trolls +1 Arm. The Stone does not really work in the new Szenario. This could allow the Stone to Be cheaper and a nice utility piece. Perhaps a bit to much but if they change the Stone IT could be a free option.
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Post by beardmonk on Oct 8, 2019 9:17:59 GMT
Iv been playing a lot either without a stone or with min stone. When you stop expecting the +2 arm bubble it does change the way you approach games. Iv found myself looking more at +def buffs and trying to get better "to hit" bonuses rather than trying to keep things under the stone bubble.
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Post by allinontrolls on Oct 8, 2019 9:28:32 GMT
Yes but as long as the elders offer nice bonuses + 2 Arm from the stone u are forced to invest the 9 points at least. We do not have a lot of options fighting Independent on the one flank of the Szenario without Stone+ caster help.
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Post by beardmonk on Oct 8, 2019 11:05:36 GMT
Yes but as long as the elders offer nice bonuses + 2 Arm from the stone u are forced to invest the 9 points at least. We do not have a lot of options fighting Independent on the one flank of the Szenario without Stone+ caster help. I do understand what your saying. But the exercise/experiment that i have been doing is: 1) Stone + attachment = 9-12 pts 2) What solos can i get for that cost and so the bonuses they deliver and the ability to spread out more equal or outweigh the +2 arm and attachment benefit? An example iv tried. In a Calandra BOH list is adding a Fell Caller and a Fennblade Kithkar for 9pts better in terms of flexibility, scenario, support etc than the arm bubble? I have no definitive answer but im playing it into many many things to see if under SR2019 it gets me better coverage. I dont claim to have the answers. I just think that we need to "start again" when it comes to given wisdom of how Trolls should play and what units are "essential".
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Post by allinontrolls on Oct 8, 2019 13:05:50 GMT
In my opinion we could play without a stone but to Be honest the Fiction is build around the Stone. I believe their are options to build a split list With a strong Part on the one half of the Szenario supported by a min Stone and some long riders with ambushing bears to support on the other half of the Szenario.
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Post by mandra on Oct 8, 2019 14:17:58 GMT
How long trolls have been in this situation?There are rumors for an improvement of our faction? Lets be honest - its been like this since approximately 1 month after Northkin CID. We got Madrak1/Grim1/Borka2 and Champs changed back then, and people did not know how to handle Champions. It took about a month or so to find the solution. its not like we have all crappy things, I mean Bears are great, Raiders fine etc its just everything else is just better. Currently our war wagons are really great but then again they aren't as good as Ret or Skorne. And thats the whole story I think. We are decent across the board but nothing more than decent. Will that change - my guess is no it will not - I mean if you look at the models before CID they also did not work in "that" state and most of them haven't changed. So Trolls are not getting a overhauling which I feel they frankly need.
Thanks, sad to know however.
The same thing I thought some days ago, playing really feel like we haven't enough unit/models on the field, stone is good but limited, don't do much and limit our moves in scenario play, that for me should be a good solution.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Oct 31, 2019 8:17:18 GMT
I think min stone is the new (and old) way to go. Just keep it there to protect your essentials. Then use flank units to fill the boards on the sides. Bears do this greatly, long riders also work without stone (the mount does not benefit from st Str anyways) as well as sonst of Bragg or Fennblades. The stone ist usually just too good not to take If you look at statlines and compare then, then Troll stats aren't warped as much by the stone as you would think. So in KC you could just leave it at home. But then you take 2-3 heavies and a war wagon that do appreciate arm 20.
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