Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Sept 8, 2019 14:58:08 GMT
@armchair warrior yes, as a group they could go off and do something, I’m still thinking that they would be good centrally as a threat and as a defensive wall. With regard to the demolisher opening up when it shoots, it was explained in MK1 fluff, but hasn’t been carried down through the other editions. It stems from a misunderstanding between the empress and the early design engineers. The empress wanted a utility jack to take damage and also deal damage to her enemies, likewise to deal with cygnar stealth etc she wanted flare. When the mechanics built the demolisher they designed it so when after it shoots it’s guns, it performs “jazz hands” to add some flair to its attacks. Those engineers were of course executed...
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Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 8, 2019 16:08:32 GMT
@soul samurai I’m not sure if your comment on stealth was in response to my previous post, but in case it was, I was not implying that the eliminators are impossible to hurt, just that it would be tougher to remove them, and therefore the ternion clouds have a better chance of lasting and helping the army move forward. I do believe there are lots of things out there now that can remove stealth. Again a couple of wind Blasts could also help to make those kinds of shots extra difficult. Likewise, if something tries to melee the eliminators, they are a robust def17 in combat.
Yes, it was in response to your post. I'm not saying that Stealth is worthless, just wondering how much value is has these days since I get the impression that it's been losing value lately. If they're hugging a Demolisher to form a cloud wall, are they far up enough to be ahead of your AD Doomreavers?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 8, 2019 16:11:54 GMT
Can someone explain to me why the damn Demnolisher opens up when it uses its guns? Does it need to spread its arms for balance? Fluff-wise I believe the guns are tucked inside the armour in order to protect them until the Demolisher can get in range to use them (you know, Cygnar with their long range guns and everything, especially since the apparent expected use scenario was pushing forwards into Cygnar defenses where they would have big guns set up - at least that seems to be something that we saw rather a lot of in the fluff mid-MkII around when the Demolisher was released). Game-wise, something something balance something.
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Post by michael on Sept 8, 2019 19:52:48 GMT
Can someone explain to me why the damn Demnolisher opens up when it uses its guns? Does it need to spread its arms for balance? There is no fluff justification.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 8, 2019 21:57:39 GMT
Am I off base in saying if the Demolisher didn’t open up when it shot, and still cost 16 points, it’d be an “ok” jack and not at all OP?
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Post by michael on Sept 9, 2019 14:43:52 GMT
Am I off base in saying if the Demolisher didn’t open up when it shot, and still cost 16 points, it’d be an “ok” jack and not at all OP? It would be better than it is now. I don’t know if it would be worth 16 points. I miss the old days when the Devastator actually, you know, devastated stuff when it opened up for Rain of Death.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 9, 2019 19:42:44 GMT
Am I off base in saying if the Demolisher didn’t open up when it shot, and still cost 16 points, it’d be an “ok” jack and not at all OP? It would be better than it is now. I don’t know if it would be worth 16 points. I miss the old days when the Devastator actually, you know, devastated stuff when it opened up for Rain of Death. It still leaves a mark. Boostable 18s that autohit on a model with bulldoze ain't "bad".
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Post by michael on Sept 9, 2019 19:50:50 GMT
It would be better than it is now. I don’t know if it would be worth 16 points. I miss the old days when the Devastator actually, you know, devastated stuff when it opened up for Rain of Death. It still leaves a mark. Boostable 18s that autohit on a model with bulldoze ain't "bad". Eh. I haven’t used Devastators for...a really long time, come to think of it. The last time I clearly remember was probably Lock & Load 2017? That was miserable because some Trollbloods dude running...I dunno, Grim? Gunnbjorn? blew two Devastators and two other heavies off the table under Harkevich’s feat like it was nothing. But PC 14 / 16 for the generally very low offensive output just doesn’t cut it nowadays, not for me. I could take two of you guys and kill possibly nothing (because these models are highly incentivized not to attack) or I could take three Marauders or 2.5 Juggernauts and wreck your face?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 9, 2019 20:11:50 GMT
Clamjacks only drop to ARM 19 now instead of the ARM 17 they did in "the old days". That's still a respectable ARM value, equal to the best ARM stats most factions get on their heavies, and with more boxes to boot. Go ahead, Rain some Death down. Yeah, your opponent will probably take the opportunity to try to wreck the jack while he has the chance, but hey: you might be able to use that to your advantage too, by distracting him from killing a more important piece.
The Demolisher should probably be the same cost as the Devastator though. BTW, why does the Devastator not have Girded?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Sept 9, 2019 21:04:25 GMT
BTW, why does the Devastator not have Girded? To give his brother a nieche, I wager. Which works really well, because, you know, the Demolisher is suuuuch a popular piece.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 9, 2019 21:11:15 GMT
Clamjacks only drop to ARM 19 now instead of the ARM 17 they did in "the old days". That's still a respectable ARM value, equal to the best ARM stats most factions get on their heavies, and with more boxes to boot. Go ahead, Rain some Death down. Yeah, your opponent will probably take the opportunity to try to wreck the jack while he has the chance, but hey: you might be able to use that to your advantage too, by distracting him from killing a more important piece. The Demolisher should probably be the same cost as the Devastator though. BTW, why does the Devastator not have Girded? +1. But what I wish is that it had increased value for opening up. Perhaps not typing it blast so that you could really get use out of it into high def stuff like rocketmen. That way I you set up some interesting piece trades. As I I so often find its value being that of a paperweight - go off there and contest something.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 9, 2019 22:06:02 GMT
One thing I noticed in the WTC list is that people like Fenris (who has seemed to me to be a bit too expensive).
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Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 10, 2019 3:15:41 GMT
To give his brother a nieche, I wager. Which works really well, because, you know, the Demolisher is suuuuch a popular piece. The Demolisher is a much newer release than the Devastator, so my assumption is they just added the rule when he was released. But they are exactly the same except for their weapons, and their weapons are both blast weapons, so I don't really understand why one has Girded and the other doesn't now in MkIII. On the other hand I don't really understand how Girded works any (in "real world" terms; all I can picture is people huddling under the Demolisher's outstretched arms, like baby birds under their mother's wings...), so I don't really understand how any jack has it anyway.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 10, 2019 4:10:31 GMT
One thing I noticed in the WTC list is that people like Fenris (who has seemed to me to be a bit too expensive). Fenris is very good for Wolves. Rise means any reavers knocked down can't simply be ignored the next turn (combine with Strakhov2 feat for some nice combinations). Really big boost for the likes of Vlad2 as well because knocked down doom reavers are feat options, giving opponents some issues. Plus he's a fast solo who hits very hard and has a lot of wounds. In the current scenario packet that's very handy. Especially when all other Wolves solos outside of Mercs want to hang back for the most part. Cheers, Dave
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Post by hocestbellum on Sept 10, 2019 8:52:55 GMT
On the other hand I don't really understand how Girded works any (in "real world" terms; all I can picture is people huddling under the Demolisher's outstretched arms, like baby birds under their mother's wings...), so I don't really understand how any jack has it anyway. I have the same disconnect when a small-based Shield Guard model takes a shot for a colossal when standing 3" behind it. Like, how did you cover that much area? But the rules are full of such necessary abstractions
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