privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Sept 5, 2019 13:20:00 GMT
Please don't ever bring that Legion custom work into my life. It's too good. It makes me feel impotent, both as a man and as a hobbyist.
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Post by Charistoph on Sept 5, 2019 14:23:17 GMT
(As for AoS sea elves I want to use ones with bows as a replacement for the Nyss Hunters. The originals are atrocious (those faces !!! OO )and cost a lot more, easy choice ) The funny part is, that even though I was joking, everyone has Nihilators on sale or clearance, so getting their box is actually cheaper than getting those Deepkin right now!
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Sept 5, 2019 16:03:47 GMT
Obviously what we need is a blanket rule that applies to every scratch built model, because there is absolutely no difference between any of them. /sarcasm wtf is that first one supposed to be?
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Post by greytemplar on Sept 5, 2019 16:08:25 GMT
Abby2 I'm guessing.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 5, 2019 16:19:58 GMT
No. An Archon. It is frankly the post that left me shaking my head.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Sept 5, 2019 17:33:50 GMT
This thread seems more like an issue with proxies, than conversions. Sure, what exactly is the conversion above (not the Zuriel conversion, that's pretty clear)? That being said, if someone said it's either a Abby2 or an Archon, I'd say fine. I could keep track of that mentally. If the whole army was made up of that type of conversion, I'd have trouble playing against it. In honesty, I don't think I've ever seen an army made up entirely of ambiguous conversions. I'm sure someone has, but my guess is this is super rare.
I only miss two things from GW. Conversion and Fluff. Yes I know a lot of the fluff is terrible, but I like it. I loved seeing cool conversions in White Dwarf, or in person. GW kits are soooooooo much better for conversions than PP's. That being the case, I'm all kinds of down for elevating conversions in WarmaHordes. No disrespect to the OP's stance.
By the way, I never get tired of seeing Menace's work! that cat is gifted.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Sept 5, 2019 19:51:26 GMT
Regarding the OP, I do kind of get where you are coming from. I do a lot of conversions and scratchbuilding, and I feel like there can be a bit of a difference in approach between “hey, I have a cool idea for a conversion” and “I don’t want to buy this model so I’m going to save money by doing the bare minimum.” That said, while one is much more likely to bring joy to my heart, I’m not going to make a point of expressing dissatisfaction with someone’s conversion.
I don’t agree with the idea that a model should require any parts of the original model it is supposed to represent; PP got away from that several years ago. My issue is that there are a number of cool conversions that don’t use parts from the original model.
For example, creating an Extreme Beast 09 out of the Extreme Juggernaut (which is one of my next projects because old Beast is looking real tiny compared to newer models), or making a Bombardier Bombshell into the officer are both conversions that you could do that would look as or more impressive than the stock model, but use none of the original parts. Personally, I have a number of converted models in my collection which contain little to none of the original model.
As for PP’s business model, I don’t think conversions have a significant negative impact on their bottom line in the grand scheme of things. For every conversion where I saved some money, I can show a number or conversions which have cost me two or three times the cost of the original model in bits and other models.
Regarding the Hermit, I am happy to see more people doing conversions, but saddened that the impetus for it is the release of a model which is really really good in competitive play, but that few people want to buy because it comes packed in with books containing campaign rules, fluff, and other cool stuff that doesn’t come up in tournament play.
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Post by kjata on Sept 5, 2019 21:50:16 GMT
The problem with the hermit coming with the book, and that being the only way to get him rather than that being a fancy alternate sculpt, is that how many oblivion books do people need? I have some interest in the campaign aspect, but have next to no interest in the fluff and lore due to not really liking the infernal story much. But if I wanted to run the campaign, I only need 1 book for the group of like 8 am of us at my local shop.
At the end of the day, I don't really mind the way the hermit is sold as much as I mind his rules themselves, as long as conversions for the hermit are okay. Because at the end of the day, I think that selling the hermit and the book together gets everyone who might have been on the fence about the book to buy it, and everyone who doesn't care about the book can make their own.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Sept 6, 2019 6:57:51 GMT
The zuriel conversion would also be legal in steamroller as it contains 50% PP parts (namely Dynamo) wouldn't it?
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Post by Havock on Sept 6, 2019 8:59:59 GMT
(But watch how money is no obstacle when it comes to obtaining that rare OOP mint condition 1984 Battletech mini that they absolutely need for the original rules version Battletech campaign they are totally going to run one of these days with the guy’s two other friends in his dark basement that smells like cat pee.) Unofrtunately, I think I met a couple of Battletech players like that who despised any model that looked half decent and are probably hating on the much needed resculpts going through kickstarter now.
Basically if it didn't look like something my late grandfather's Commodore 64 would throw up they'd tilt into full grognard mode :v
They were terrible at the game though.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Sept 6, 2019 17:02:26 GMT
The zuriel conversion would also be legal in steamroller as it contains 50% PP parts (namely Dynamo) wouldn't it? Yes. Since it's 50% PP parts, as long as the event organizer can tell it's Zuriel, it's good.
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Post by gedditoffme on Sept 7, 2019 1:15:30 GMT
I like conversions and scratch builds, think we should do everything possible to encourage them. However agree some are poorer quality, and all must pass the sniff test of being obvious what it is. Also needs to be consistent with the world, faction and scale. - a lot of the huge based BAHI Europe style stuff is amazing quality. The beast man well of orboros really fits with the list, and better than the original. Most huge bases leave no doubt about what it is either. - also the hermit: most are high quality and clear, and the conversions bring more faction identity to it. Especially thinking the bradigus or menoth choir conversions I’ve seen. - archons, and especially the void archon should be converted. He represents different ideas to each faction, and the stock model doesn’t look right for cryx or cephalyx. Having said that, it still needs to look like an angel or archon: the example posted in this thread clearly doesn’t pass the test. Something like bane lord Tartarus with wings could work though, and seen a cephalyx with clockwork angel wuings that looked great
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zhoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 254
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Post by zhoe on Sept 9, 2019 4:02:58 GMT
u can maek a purty sharp lookin hermit of hang hold usinh drinking straws chewing gum and mrs dash
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Post by marxlives on Sept 9, 2019 14:28:07 GMT
So I am going to express something of an unpopular opinion (but also acknowledge that PP's business model is encouraging it). There is something that isn't really in the spirit of things for people to be slapping a random left over scroll case (or buying it off ebay/bits store) and a random grunt and calling it a hermit. I GET that some of this is that we are talking about a great solo who costs $60....but still. And one wonders why stop there. Given current bits (see multi-kit jacks bits) I could pretty easily slap together a couple of menoth archons. I have left over Nyss parts - lets put one on a big base, a flying stand, random wings from some other kit and call it a void Archon. Unpopular but I am going to go with that for a conversion to be TO legal it needs to at least include SOME parts from the original model. Otherwise you are gonig to see over time a lot of "European Black Industry" things that don't really put much (any?) $$ into PP's pockets for a game that they are trying to support. As long as it follows the 50 percent rule and looks like the hermit, I don't really mind. Of course TO wise the official ruling is 50% and the parts must all consist of PP bits. How strictly that gets enforced is really based off your scene. The PP community has always endorsed a scene with great painted models with games that are fun to watch. As long as we are not wandering into green 3D painted Tau vehicles with not a single layer of paint territory, I think we are good.
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Post by marxlives on Sept 9, 2019 14:34:07 GMT
Regarding the OP, I do kind of get where you are coming from. I do a lot of conversions and scratchbuilding, and I feel like there can be a bit of a difference in approach between “hey, I have a cool idea for a conversion” and “I don’t want to buy this model so I’m going to save money by doing the bare minimum.” That said, while one is much more likely to bring joy to my heart, I’m not going to make a point of expressing dissatisfaction with someone’s conversion. I don’t agree with the idea that a model should require any parts of the original model it is supposed to represent; PP got away from that several years ago. My issue is that there are a number of cool conversions that don’t use parts from the original model. For example, creating an Extreme Beast 09 out of the Extreme Juggernaut (which is one of my next projects because old Beast is looking real tiny compared to newer models), or making a Bombardier Bombshell into the officer are both conversions that you could do that would look as or more impressive than the stock model, but use none of the original parts. Personally, I have a number of converted models in my collection which contain little to none of the original model. As for PP’s business model, I don’t think conversions have a significant negative impact on their bottom line in the grand scheme of things. For every conversion where I saved some money, I can show a number or conversions which have cost me two or three times the cost of the original model in bits and other models. Regarding the Hermit, I am happy to see more people doing conversions, but saddened that the impetus for it is the release of a model which is really really good in competitive play, but that few people want to buy because it comes packed in with books containing campaign rules, fluff, and other cool stuff that doesn’t come up in tournament play. Right, this is a part of the PP community that bothers me too. Many of us in the community want fluff, PP tries their damnest to make it between the RPG world books and such, and no one buys it. PP should really just KS all their fluff components just to get out to the people who do want it in a cost effective way. We are just lucky that the top tier tournaments and IG enforces painting requirements or we would see bat reps with fields of pewter and resin.
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