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Post by sand20go on Sept 3, 2019 2:16:14 GMT
OK. I think that I have decided on my fall/winter pairing. I am going to switch Vlad2 up a bit and rather than be an "all comers"/balanced list I am going to skew a bit heavier on the Doomies and lose victor. Try to really use this for a scenario bully. The second list is designed around their answer of shooting into 30 doomies. I think that ultimately strakov2 is our best answer to shooting. Not a GREAT answer (because you really have to use the Mauraders to effectiveness) but it SHOULD be difficult to attrition against. Would welcome thoughts and really bad matchups. Eventually Vlad2 gets swapped out for Z1 in a Flames list. But we need to wait for a month and see what comes out and "rules" conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1PhDkTkTnjl5l5l4l4l3l3oI7Qgd7QgdjJ___-1S777pkYkTnj8h8hnf89nf89nf89nfnfngKhador [Theme] Armored Korps [Strakhov 2] Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [0(5)] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Ragman [4] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Man-O-War Assault Chariot [14] Khador [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Destroyer [14] - Mad Dog [8] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (min) [10]
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Post by borderprince on Sept 3, 2019 3:14:50 GMT
For the Strakhov2 list, would it be worth considering a unit of Eliminators in place of a Strike Tanker? I know the Tankers are all really good, but the temptation to have a unit of Last Standed Eliminators is great - that's an assassination threat you can jut keep in your pocket until you need it. Just gives you another set of options.
I'm not convinced by the Assault Chariot. But I think that's because I'm just not convinced by the Chariots generally, rather than not convinced by your inclusion of it in this list. I would be interested to hear your thinking about it with Strakhov2 though.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 3, 2019 4:21:29 GMT
For the Strakhov2 list, would it be worth considering a unit of Eliminators in place of a Strike Tanker? I know the Tankers are all really good, but the temptation to have a unit of Last Standed Eliminators is great - that's an assassination threat you can jut keep in your pocket until you need it. Just gives you another set of options.
I'm not convinced by the Assault Chariot. But I think that's because I'm just not convinced by the Chariots generally, rather than not convinced by your inclusion of it in this list. I would be interested to hear your thinking about it with Strakhov2 though.
I wanted chaff clearing above what I could get from supressions. I find the biggest challenge with ac is lack of volume. Consider what to do about convergence with 4 foundaries
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 3, 2019 6:28:14 GMT
What's the thinking with the mad dog? I'd rather swap the marauder for a juggernaut and get either two more escorts or add a Merc solo.
Though personally I'd go rager + spriggan anyway.
I'm a big fan of Strakhov2 with Legion of Steel personally (I think Harlowe Holdemhigh is a really big boost to the list). If you want to stick with Armoured Corps I'd agree with the eliminators for Last Stand.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by hocestbellum on Sept 3, 2019 8:31:43 GMT
I love the fact that 'I didn't quite take maximum Doom Reavers' apparently counts as a balanced list! (EDIT: Oh, I slightly misread. You're moving away from a balanced list. Nothing to see here...) I see what you're going for with the Strakhov list, but I'd be concerned that only having one non-warcaster pathfinder model could lead to problems. If you're going for 'I tank with my face' then yeah, I think that's about as good as you get for warriors. I would consider the new Jaws as an option, too; playtime has been super limited recently (work work work), but it's got face-tank for days and quite a lot of useful tools. I'm not 100% sold on it, though; Garryth2 does quite a number on it and I think we'll see more of him. Also, not sure how it plays into CG, so your you'll have to judge that based on your meta experience.
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Post by auraco on Sept 3, 2019 11:11:21 GMT
For the Strakhov2 list, would it be worth considering a unit of Eliminators in place of a Strike Tanker? I know the Tankers are all really good, but the temptation to have a unit of Last Standed Eliminators is great - that's an assassination threat you can jut keep in your pocket until you need it. Just gives you another set of options.
I'm not convinced by the Assault Chariot. But I think that's because I'm just not convinced by the Chariots generally, rather than not convinced by your inclusion of it in this list. I would be interested to hear your thinking about it with Strakhov2 though.
I wanted chaff clearing above what I could get from supressions. I find the biggest challenge with ac is lack of volume. Consider what to do about convergence with 4 foundaries Drop the Vlad2 list? It would work better with a full unit of outriders though. My only comment on the Vlad2 list would be to try to max out the outriders because they scale so well with Hand of fate, I would personally cut a unit of doom reavers, but I'm not sure you'd actually want to do that, not sure what to cut to get there. As for the lists, what do you want to drop where? The Strakhov2 list seems to be a gunline drop, but the chariot is terrible here, seems like a big weak link in the list to do that. I have to say I disagree with the people telling you to cut a tanker to include the eliminators. If they get last stand they don't have a speed buff, so it's not like with Vlad2 where you can sent them from across the board to kill a caster, here they are very telegraphed models that no one is going to let live within 10'' of their caster. Strakhov2's feat is also pretty meh for them, but totally worth it on more man o war.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 3, 2019 11:58:27 GMT
Why not combine them and play Strakhov2 in Wolves! Assault Kommander Strakhov +22 -Kommando -Kommando -Greylord Adjunct -4 -Rager -10 -Ruin -17 Fenris -8 Koldun Lord -0(4) Koldun Lord -0(4) Sergeant Nick -4 Doom Reaver Swordsmen -10 -Greylord Escort -3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen -10 -Greylord Escort -3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen -10 -Greylord Escort -3 Greylord Ternion -0(7) Steelhead Halberdiers (Max) -11 -Koldun Kapitan Valachev -4 You could even do Vlad2 in AC as well Cheers, Dave
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Post by auraco on Sept 3, 2019 13:31:53 GMT
I’m not sure why you’d want to do that, wolves gets terrible mileage out of Strakhov2’s kit, no many good upkeep target and next to no mileage out of the feat. And Vlad2 in armored corps, while good, doesn’t do much for the match ups that wolves doesn’t cover...
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 3, 2019 14:31:58 GMT
OK. I think that I have decided on my fall/winter pairing. I am going to switch Vlad2 up a bit and rather than be an "all comers"/balanced list I am going to skew a bit heavier on the Doomies and lose victor. Try to really use this for a scenario bully. [Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Destroyer [14] - Mad Dog [8] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (min) [10] I don’t love the Mad Dog. I get the trick, but I think you want every model in your list around to do work and the Mad Dog is not getting work done other than running to and camping zones. Meh. While I like it, the 3rd Greylord Escort isn’t strictly necessary. You can get by with two, and dropping this model plus the Mad Dog frees up: +2 battle group points +9 army points In terms of your army composition, my personal preference would be to add in Alexia 2 (7 points) or upgrade the Outriders to max (7 points), leaving you, I think, with +4 points for your Battlegroup. I like the Grolar for pathfinder and the Heavy Boiler turn 1. If you only added +2 points for a min Battlegroup you might consider the Kodiak for the same reason you wanted a Mad Dog, only now you’ve got a much more durable chassis that can actually help bully a zone. If you don’t like that cocktail sauce, add in Fenris and bump the Marauder up to a 2nd Destroyer.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 3, 2019 16:10:13 GMT
OK. I think that I have decided on my fall/winter pairing. I am going to switch Vlad2 up a bit and rather than be an "all comers"/balanced list I am going to skew a bit heavier on the Doomies and lose victor. Try to really use this for a scenario bully. [Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Destroyer [14] - Mad Dog [8] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (min) [10] I don’t love the Mad Dog. I get the trick, but I think you want every model in your list around to do work and the Mad Dog is not getting work done other than running to and camping zones. Meh. While I like it, the 3rd Greylord Escort isn’t strictly necessary. You can get by with two, and dropping this model plus the Mad Dog frees up: +2 battle group points +9 army points In terms of your army composition, my personal preference would be to add in Alexia 2 (7 points) or upgrade the Outriders to max (7 points), leaving you, I think, with +4 points for your Battlegroup. I like the Grolar for pathfinder and the Heavy Boiler turn 1. If you only added +2 points for a min Battlegroup you might consider the Kodiak for the same reason you wanted a Mad Dog, only now you’ve got a much more durable chassis that can actually help bully a zone. If you don’t like that cocktail sauce, add in Fenris and bump the Marauder up to a 2nd Destroyer. I like those changes and will definitely test. Alexia2 is awesome sauce in Wolves (and helps minimize the issues below).... I would just note that in the current packet there are times where you ARE sending a jack off to go camp a zone with really nothing else to do. With our universally sucky 12/14 inch control range that jack is largely on its own. I think there is an argument to be made that in such instances the fewer points invested the better - and that, arguably, the difference between a kodiak (unfueled) and a mad dog (unfueled) + 5 points isn't that clear of choice. This is particularly true with Wolves - because you are/can have doomies far out on the flank to help that jack clear the square zone. Then there are the times in wolves where you REALLY want to send something that isn't as squishy as a doomie over to their side of the board and which demands resources. It is going to die but, again, far better that it be an 8 point maddog than a 13 point kodiak or a pony connected to a 17 point unit. Looking at my universal testing - if you put 3 ponies under Hand of fate, a bad santa brittle frost, 2 destroyer shots, and a thrall warrior on the charge into a Railless you would have a 6.4% chance of killing it. If we subbed out a destroyer for a grolar and were able to hot swap Hand of Fate we would be at 34%.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 3, 2019 16:21:07 GMT
The Grolar is truly a Wonderful HoF target...
Instead of a destroyer in the line up, maybe you could sub in a Devastator. Devastators love Assail and with the upkeep on it can start outside of Vlads control without a powerup focus and still Charge, Trample or Slam for free (and don’t forget the +2” move and +2” slam). And you can do two of those things without opening up. Seems really good.
Winner winner chicken dinner?
Hmmm. Bonus thought. You can bulldoze first, then slam. So at a minimum you can clear something 5”+ out of a zone. Also, doomreavers love knocked down models... Gotta try this tech.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 3, 2019 16:45:13 GMT
The Grolar is truly a Wonderful HoF target... Instead of a destroyer in the line up, maybe you could sub in a Devastator. Devastators love Assail and with the upkeep on it can start outside of Vlads control without a powerup focus and still Charge, Trample or Slam for free (and don’t forget the +2” move and +2” slam). And you can do two of those things without opening up. Seems really good. Winner winner chicken dinner? Hmmm. Bonus thought. You can bulldoze first, then slam. So at a minimum you can clear something 5”+ out of a zone. Also, doomreavers love knocked down models... Gotta try this tech. Sadly the "free upkeeps to start" got removed from Oblivion packet ;-(* There are some wonderful awesomesauce things you used to be able to do. So if you want Assail on it gotta be in Rng/RNG+2. I think you WANT destroyer. Consider Spread the net. For a moment will ignore the size of the flag. Top of 1 you can RUn the destroyer forward. You are now in your square zone (yeah!). But you also threaten with a walk and a shot killing many/most solos that might be trying to camp the flag. SOME of the doomies can be screening you/keeping that zone in scoring chances. Likewise, Anarchy has some similar dynamics. THat is something the devestator can't do (easily)
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Post by auraco on Sept 3, 2019 17:42:43 GMT
This is why I pack a destroyer in most of my lists that don't have a colossal, I say most because I don't actually take one in my Sorscha3 list, but it's one of the rare exceptions to that rule.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 3, 2019 17:56:25 GMT
This is why I pack a destroyer in most of my lists that don't have a colossal, I say most because I don't actually take one in my Sorscha3 list, but it's one of the rare exceptions to that rule. It is really fairly value in the scenario game. Not sure as much in the attrition - but if you believe that what your list provides is a strong way of leveraring points it isn't a problem to prioritize flag sniping over being a brawler like a juggernaught.
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Post by auraco on Sept 3, 2019 21:31:26 GMT
They clearly have very different roles, I wouldn’t spam destroyers the way we can field multiple melee jack, but I greatly enjoy the scenario presence the destroyer brings to the table, it fits my playstyle because I tend to play very heavily on scenario and not so much on assassination.
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