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Post by Gamingdevil on Sept 3, 2019 9:47:47 GMT
The "printed cards debacle"? You mean that thing that made sure you always had access to up to date cards even when your LGS only has mk1 boxes in stock? I'm thinking it also had something to do with starting off MK3 with printed cards, making stores stock them, then almost immediately discontinuing them leaving stores with redundant stock. There's also still no (official) way to actually format the cards so that you can get them printed double sided on a harder material and use them like before. I don't mind the way the card database is implemented, though I would like it if they actually supported a good double sided print, but I can imagine retailers aren't too happy when you make them stock product and then make it impossible to move said product.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Sept 3, 2019 10:17:23 GMT
Jup, I bought 3 decks that were rendered useless quite quickly. That could have bought me a unit instead.
And I just needed the three decks, others have a lot more factions. Players got robbed, stores got robbed. No excuse for how terrible they went about it.
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Post by michael on Sept 3, 2019 12:18:56 GMT
You know, I was working on an overblown humorous reaction to these two “card debacle” posts, but now I just can’t be bothered. You people are just looking for reasons to complain. Get over it.
If you hated paying for printed cards so much, why didn’t you use War Room 2 instead?
How is any given store’s incompetence when judging market demand somehow Privateer’s fault? Is it because Privateer sold a product that your local store was under no obligation or compulsion to buy? This is not GW’s mandatory product mix policy. (But as a fun exercise, go ask your local store how much dead product they have been forcibly saddled with over the years, product that is simply baked into the ROI calculation as the cost of doing business with GW.)
Was there somehow some doubt in the retailer’s (or consumer’s!) mind that history would fail to repeat itself? Because obviously neither the MK I color card decks, the MK I Prime Remix decks, nor the constant stream of errata issued by Privateer on a regular basis for over a decade, would strongly signal that physical cards have a shelf life!
No, please, continue to shout about all the things that are that evil Privateer Press’ fault.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Sept 3, 2019 14:25:21 GMT
Too early really to say anything on the OP topic.
I do have faith in PP bringing out a good product rules- and balancing wise. Hopefully we will see some sweet looking models in some other material than metal.
I am however worried about PP being able to push the game for critical mass, especially outside US. The competition is rock hard, and PP are depended on flagstore where they now are gone(again outside US).
Corvus bellies is launching 4 ed of infinity in the summer 2020, and i have seen or heard more discussion about that, than the PP game.
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Post by marxlives on Sept 3, 2019 14:28:06 GMT
Newsflash: world is not made up of USA, and WMH is played all over the world. And loadsa stores around dropped PP right after printed cards debacle. The "printed cards debacle"? You mean that thing that made sure you always had access to up to date cards even when your LGS only has mk1 boxes in stock? What a tragedy that must have been for those stores. I think UK store owners just look for excuses to feed customers so they don't have to stock PP. I'm sure it's just not profitable for them to bother ordering it, otherwise they would. PP is based in the US. Getting shit out to the UK is much more expensive for them than just selling that shit here. That cost gets passed on to the suppliers which then gets passed on to the LGS. Shipping costs eat into profits, especially when your margins are already thin. Your experience outside PP's native market is not indicative of how the company as a whole is doing. This is true, especially when you look at European markets. Since PP is based and shipping from the U.S. it is actually easier and cheaper to market in Asia and the Americas. This is why PP ships a lot of support to clubs in those areas. It is also super common that if an LGS doesn't want to put the effort in supporting a product they would rather hook you up with excuses rather than product. Warmachine is not Pokemon, it is not a card game.
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Post by marxlives on Sept 3, 2019 14:29:43 GMT
Too early really to say anything on the OP topic. I do have faith in PP bringing out a good product rules- and balancing wise. Hopefully we will see some sweet looking models in some other material than metal. I am however worried about PP being able to push the game for critical mass, especially outside US. The competition is rock hard, and PP are depended on flagstore where they now are gone(again outside US). Corvus bellies is launching 4 ed of infinity in the summer 2020, and i have seen or heard more discussion about that, than the PP game. As a company based in the EU and adhering to those trade policies, I sure hope so.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Sept 3, 2019 14:41:53 GMT
You know, I was working on an overblown humorous reaction to these two “card debacle” posts, but now I just can’t be bothered. You people are just looking for reasons to complain. Get over it. If you hated paying for printed cards so much, why didn’t you use War Room 2 instead? How is any given store’s incompetence when judging market demand somehow Privateer’s fault? Is it because Privateer sold a product that your local store was under no obligation or compulsion to buy? This is not GW’s mandatory product mix policy. (But as a fun exercise, go ask your local store how much dead product they have been forcibly saddled with over the years, product that is simply baked into the ROI calculation as the cost of doing business with GW.) Was there somehow some doubt in the retailer’s (or consumer’s!) mind that history would fail to repeat itself? Because obviously neither the MK I color card decks, the MK I Prime Remix decks, nor the constant stream of errata issued by Privateer on a regular basis for over a decade, would strongly signal that physical cards have a shelf life! No, please, continue to shout about all the things that are that evil Privateer Press’ fault. Like I said, I didn't really care either way. A lot of my cards are still valid and even if they aren't, I use them to wrap the paper printouts around. Since you're getting your panties in a bunch anyway and for the sake of playing devil's advocate: this kind of sounds you're blaming the retailers for not learning from the past rather than expecting PP to learn from the past and be better. Why is one party at fault but not the other?
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Post by michael on Sept 3, 2019 15:03:41 GMT
.... Since you're getting your panties in a bunch anyway and for the sake of playing devil's advocate: this kind of sounds you're blaming the retailers for not learning from the past rather than expecting PP to learn from the past and be better. Why is one party at fault but not the other? I am only annoyed by people who exhibit a clear lack of critical thinking skills. Miniature game rules, like software, are expected to evolve. Errata is an intrinsic part of the process. Would you be more or less pissed if, for example, Microsoft did not patch their software? At no point did Privateer promise “this product will be free of updates, your cards will be valid forever.” Their stated policy is exactly the opposite, in fact! Somebody who somehow believes that “their” favorite model/rule/whatever is not potentially subject to change is deluded, and has no right to complain if and/or when the company does exactly what they said they would do.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Sept 3, 2019 15:24:08 GMT
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Sept 3, 2019 16:55:04 GMT
You know, I was working on an overblown humorous reaction to these two “card debacle” posts, but now I just can’t be bothered. You people are just looking for reasons to complain. Get over it. If you hated paying for printed cards so much, why didn’t you use War Room 2 instead? How is any given store’s incompetence when judging market demand somehow Privateer’s fault? Is it because Privateer sold a product that your local store was under no obligation or compulsion to buy? This is not GW’s mandatory product mix policy. (But as a fun exercise, go ask your local store how much dead product they have been forcibly saddled with over the years, product that is simply baked into the ROI calculation as the cost of doing business with GW.) Was there somehow some doubt in the retailer’s (or consumer’s!) mind that history would fail to repeat itself? Because obviously neither the MK I color card decks, the MK I Prime Remix decks, nor the constant stream of errata issued by Privateer on a regular basis for over a decade, would strongly signal that physical cards have a shelf life! No, please, continue to shout about all the things that are that evil Privateer Press’ fault. ............ They shouldn't have released those decks in the first place, is my complaint. I don't mind supporting them, and bought the hardcover rulebook along with an MK3 legion starterset (completely unnecessary). I also bought the grymkin book, their dice set and templates (even though I'm drowning in that shit) because I liked them. I didn't mind paying for the cards either, but a deck is purely a functional thing and they rendered them disfunctional only moments after release. They could have been up front about the card database and the frequency with which things would be altered this edition, yet chose not to be.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 3, 2019 19:32:49 GMT
Newsflash: world is not made up of USA, and WMH is played all over the world. And loadsa stores around dropped PP right after printed cards debacle. The "printed cards debacle"? You mean that thing that made sure you always had access to up to date cards even when your LGS only has mk1 boxes in stock? What a tragedy that must have been for those stores. I think UK store owners just look for excuses to feed customers so they don't have to stock PP. I'm sure it's just not profitable for them to bother ordering it, otherwise they would. PP is based in the US. Getting shit out to the UK is much more expensive for them than just selling that shit here. That cost gets passed on to the suppliers which then gets passed on to the LGS. Shipping costs eat into profits, especially when your margins are already thin. Your experience outside PP's native market is not indicative of how the company as a whole is doing. Brexit aint gonna make it easier either. If the U.K. thinks the U.S. politicians aren't going to grease them up and aim for penetration once the inevitable nodeal brexit happens they're deluded.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 3, 2019 20:19:15 GMT
To the Original topic. An interesting niche in the current wargaming universe would be to make this game combo of a classic skirmish game AND MTG Commander. I am NOT sure it can be balanced (or that will be really hard) but it is interesting to think about the customization of "warcasters" and an army largely designed about making them "tick". Depending on the materials of models, the modification opportunities/etc. this might work.
But that said it also seems like a saturated market right now....there are a ton of games, it feels like the same amount of players and it is games that have an "esports/competition for $$$) that seems like is where the sweet spot is. Greed, for lack of other words, is good.
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Post by michael on Sept 3, 2019 22:11:53 GMT
............ They shouldn't have released those decks in the first place, is my complaint. I don't mind supporting them, and bought the hardcover rulebook along with an MK3 legion starterset (completely unnecessary). I also bought the grymkin book, their dice set and templates (even though I'm drowning in that shit) because I liked them. I didn't mind paying for the cards either, but a deck is purely a functional thing and they rendered them disfunctional only moments after release. They could have been up front about the card database and the frequency with which things would be altered this edition, yet chose not to be. How, pray tell, were all players supposed to get the cards they needed to play the game eleven months before the card database went live? Privateer didn’t even publish a PDF for the cards until the December 2016 errata forced it. As a reminder: privateerpress.com/december-212016-faqForce all players to own smart phones and buy War Room 2? That sounds like a fantastic barrier to entry to throw up in front of your entire player base while trying to encourage adoption. None of the cards received anything more than “typo”-level errata until December 2016, a full six months after the game went live. Is that “moments after release”? And even those changes targeted a relatively narrow selection of models per faction, with Khador taking it right in the face with 10 substantial changes, and everyone else getting between one and four changes apiece. And, how would Privateer possibly be able to predict the pace of change? Obviously the Skorne issue caught them by surprise, and it turns out that 50,000 cutthroat SOB players can find unintentionally broken situations in your game and exploit them ruthlessly to the point where errata was required. That’s not something anyone could predict. And anyway, they were as up-front about CID as they could possibly be , as evidenced by the post I already linked above.
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marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Sept 4, 2019 10:49:29 GMT
This or that, the product didn't sell well in some locations.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Sept 4, 2019 16:26:21 GMT
A lot of the ball is in pp’s court here. Warmachine can’t expand forever, some of the original factions especially. It’s wise to create s new setting which ultimately may simply be for a different market than warmachine players.
We may see a scenario of better support for this game if sales are high perhaps from disgruntled 40k players?
War machine may kick around a bit in some form, but it’s going to be a “barely any new models” type of thing
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