doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Aug 31, 2019 23:50:53 GMT
Ok, so first, some background.
-I am NOT new to the game, just Minions. Already have Retribution (sadly put on a shelf for the last 3+ yrs), Protectorate, and Grymkin. -I have always liked the Gator aesthetic, and semi-intended to get a gator army just for funsies. -I do NOT have interest in Farrow. Maybe later, but right now sticking to pure gators. -Similarly, not crazy about Bog Trogs, but accept they will be a part. Just don't want to build around them. -I have recent been offered a very cheap Dracodile. Which seems like a good enough reason to slowly start building a gator army.
So, with all that said, what works decently well with a Dracodile/is a decent start to gators? At first glance, it seems like Calaban and/or Jaga-Jaga would be the best option, but generally nothing seems to really make the Dracodile shine.
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vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vomath on Sept 1, 2019 5:16:09 GMT
Jaga's probably your best bet. Battle Host and Ghost Walk are both great for the Drac. I find that Jaga and Calaban want to do more or less the same things, but Jaga does it better. Apropos of nothing, I like to play the Dracodile with Barny2, even though it's pretty far from optimized.
When you say you like the Gator anesthetic are you talking about Posse, or the assorted Blindwater range? I end up building most of my lists in WWFF, but that's not to say that Blindwater is bad. Jaga and Calaban in Blindwater usually want Croak Raiders; do you like those models?
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Sept 1, 2019 12:57:19 GMT
I far prefer the Posse to Croaks, but am not utterly opposed to a unit or two of Croaks in a list. I am more so not interested in Farrow, as opposed to croaks/bog trogs.
That said, I completely recognize that I'm probably going to end up with Maelok as my second list, even though he does nothing for the Dracodile, simply to run oodles of Posse.
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Post by Dirhavel on Sept 1, 2019 13:30:36 GMT
I've seen some people run the Dracodile with Maelok and it's not a bad option. He does benefit from Mortality and from the Feat, but he tends to eat into your posse points so it's your call whether that's worth it or not.
Jaga-Jaga is also a good option. I've had some decent success with a double croak, Sacral Vault list with her, but you could probably take out the vault or a unit of croaks to fit in the dracodile. For what it's worth a min unit of ambushers has been the best feat target for me. They do almost no work but I put them in AD, hide somewhere until they can get Ghost Walk from the soul slave and run in position for some juicy pow 14s. Shamblers are too slow for that job and croaks too valuable imo.
That being said, I think it would help to know whether you intend to start Minions as a casual side-project or as a competitive army. In the first case, you can play the dracodile and posse with any caster really, they all do something for it but like you noticed there's no outstanding synergies anywhere. As for competitive play, I would say the only place where the Dracodile really is the optimal choice is with Sturm & Drang, but that doesn't seem to be an option for you. However Maelok with all the Posse has been a staple of competitive minions pairings for the last two years now, so that's good start.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Sept 1, 2019 15:11:57 GMT
I've seen some people run the Dracodile with Maelok and it's not a bad option. He does benefit from Mortality and from the Feat, but he tends to eat into your posse points so it's your call whether that's worth it or not. Jaga-Jaga is also a good option. I've had some decent success with a double croak, Sacral Vault list with her, but you could probably take out the vault or a unit of croaks to fit in the dracodile. For what it's worth a min unit of ambushers has been the best feat target for me. They do almost no work but I put them in AD, hide somewhere until they can get Ghost Walk from the soul slave and run in position for some juicy pow 14s. Shamblers are too slow for that job and croaks too valuable imo. That being said, I think it would help to know whether you intend to start Minions as a casual side-project or as a competitive army. In the first case, you can play the dracodile and posse with any caster really, they all do something for it but like you noticed there's no outstanding synergies anywhere. As for competitive play, I would say the only place where the Dracodile really is the optimal choice is with Sturm & Drang, but that doesn't seem to be an option for you. However Maelok with all the Posse has been a staple of competitive minions pairings for the last two years now, so that's good start. All good info, thank you. As for casual vs competitive, kinda a mix. I far prefer casual, but one of the few people playing in the area (meta shrank a LOT since MkIII started) pretty much only plays his tournament list(s). And this is somebody who tends to win/place in large tournaments, so I get stomped basically every game. Which I don't mind too much, but still means I generally need to bring my best or just be playing a game of "how long can I survive this game?" Which is another reason the second list would be Maelok w/ posse, even though his tournament list proved yesterday it can handle medium base infantry quite well.
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vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vomath on Sept 1, 2019 16:35:53 GMT
Out of curiosity, what list is that? Can Maelok's list be tweaked with that in mind?
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Sept 1, 2019 17:17:03 GMT
Out of curiosity, what list is that? Can Maelok's list be tweaked with that in mind? No idea yet. Maelok, 3 Posse, , profit. To be fair, I got the offer on the Dracodile yesterday. So this is very early thoughts.
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Post by Dirhavel on Sept 1, 2019 21:03:59 GMT
Out of curiosity, what list is that? Can Maelok's list be tweaked with that in mind? No idea yet. Maelok, 3 Posse, , profit. To be fair, I got the offer on the Dracodile yesterday. So this is very early thoughts. I think he meant your opponent's list, as in we could help you tech against it. As for a decent list to go along with Maelok, I think you should look into Jaga-Jaga, Rask or Barnabas2. They can all use the Dracodile and play well enough in Blindwater and in WWFF, depending on which way you want to go.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Sept 2, 2019 0:38:10 GMT
Ooooooohhhhhhhh, that makes sense.
Generally some variation of the following (I'm not remembering everything perfectly, so the points dont work quite right):
Garryth2 Sylys Hypnos Moros Siren x2 Arcane Force Generator Trident x2 Ghost Sniper x2 Hermit of Henge Hold Electromancers Arcanist Mechanic x2
The jacks aren't set in stone, but everything else is pretty much guaranteed.
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Post by Dirhavel on Sept 2, 2019 11:48:57 GMT
Yeah, Garryth2 is indeed a good counter to medium infantry. Even Posse don't like Mortality, Warpath and all the high quality shots. That said, the Dracodile is generally pretty good against Ret because they don't really have a way to remove blind from the battle engines other than the Observatory objective. So if you can get a good assault spray that clips 1-2 BEs, that's probably worth it. Also if I'm not mistaken, the assault spray happens before his feat attacks trigger so you could negate the feat that way.
I haven't played that specific matchup yet, but I would assume there's still a game to be made out of it. Mortality can't be everywhere, and Posse are quite sturdy. You should still expect to lose about a unit per turn until you can close in on him. You can hold the feat for his feat turn to hopefully negate some attacks (Tridents and ghost snipers don't have magical weapons) as well as having the extra armor for both turns. The AFG might be the biggest threat with all the momentum/brutal shots, so he should be your first blind target if possible, or at least run to engage ASAP.
If that doesn't work, Rask WWFF could be another decent option into Garryth2, because his feat is very good against gunlines like this and you can usually alpha one or two tridents before he has a chance to really put a dent in your army. A Raged, Furied and Boundless Charged Swamp Horror should do the trick if you can get it there.
Just some food for thoughts.
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Post by Deadneck on Sept 5, 2019 9:41:59 GMT
If you want to make a list with the dracodile and deal with a ranged heavy list I recommend Barnabas 1. The 5" swamp pit is large enough to fit the dracodile and makes it immune to shooting.
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Post by apoc2148 on Sept 18, 2019 11:53:28 GMT
If you want to make a list with the dracodile and deal with a ranged heavy list I recommend Barnabas 1. The 5" swamp pit is large enough to fit the dracodile and makes it immune to shooting. It will also stop the drac from blocking LOS to stuff behind it. Not terrible but something to keep in mind if you are going to use that tactic.
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Post by Corrupted Bauer on Sept 19, 2019 7:59:49 GMT
If you want to make a list with the dracodile and deal with a ranged heavy list I recommend Barnabas 1. The 5" swamp pit is large enough to fit the dracodile and makes it immune to shooting. It will also stop the drac from blocking LOS to stuff behind it. Not terrible but something to keep in mind if you are going to use that tactic. Even further on that idea since I see people miss it all the time. If the Dracodile uses floodwaters it also doesn’t block LoS anymore because amphibious in water.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 19, 2019 9:36:44 GMT
Even further on that idea since I see people miss it all the time. If the Dracodile uses floodwaters it also doesn’t block LoS anymore because amphibious in water. Unless, and this is a little weird, unless the Dracodile's base is at least slightly touching any piece of rough terrain. Because Floodwaters only causes models to treat open terrain as shallow water, if you are ever so slightly touching forest or rubble terrain you are no longer completely within shallow water and thus continue to block LoS. There are all sorts of fun things you can do with this, including using the Dracodile's Warlock to cast Floodwaters and drop the Dracodile out of blocking LOS to let other models shoot past it, only to have it activate and move so that it is now blocking retaliation to those models. There's a silly amount of nuance to that spell.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Oct 5, 2019 19:49:52 GMT
Update:
I bit the bullet, and have ordered the Blindwater army box + stuff. So, my total collection in 2 weeks (when they arrive) will be
Rask Barny2 Bull Snapper Blackhide Wrastler (from army box, not sure if that's the combo-kit and if it can be magnetized or not) Blackhide Wrastler and/or Blind Walker (again, unsure about magnetization) Bone Swarm Dracodile Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Shamblers Gatorman Posse Gatorman Posse Void Leech (2) Bone Shrine Gatorman Soul Slave Kwaak Slickspine Longchops
After having ordered, I realized I need to get some new foam carrying trays. These will cost approximately $60, and I need to spend $100 for free shipping. So...what model/models would you suggest to bump me up to free shipping/round out collection?
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