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Post by hamicron on Aug 18, 2019 20:34:11 GMT
So Vlad 3 has finally gotten actually good. Well maybe he hasn’t gotten any better but Warriors of the Old Faith certainly solves his major issues.
To whit; his lack of focus and his mediocre hitting power. Wracks are brilliant with V3. The addition of a single focus means he can make a killing run, casting Dash and Hand of Fate onto himself while having a total of 6 (7 if you can make an impact) attacks onto your target. The Hermit is the second part of the puzzle. Master of Ruin increases Vlad’s damage potential hugely, taking his weapons up to effective ps 14 and 15. Stacked with Hand of Fate and a bucketload of attacks you can dish the damage. The theme makes the Hermit friendly faction so you can speed him up with Dash. By turn 3 he’ll be doing the business and creating headaches. The get out of jail free ability of Mad Visions is also very helpful for keeping an aggressive caster like V3 a little bit safer.
Other assorted benefits of the theme: plentiful cheap shield guards, very useful again for protecting aggressive casters and units.
Line breaker: An additional dice on impact attacks is massive. I’ve found the accuracy of these attacks hugely helpful in getting work done with cavalry, whereas without it it’s usually too risky to fail an impact and be left high and dry.
The Choir: V3 has no way of handing out free charges. The Battle hymn is great for just improving the overall efficiency and making back that spent focus.
Below is my current list for Warriors.
Vladimir Tzepesci, Great Prince of Umbrey - WJ: +27 - War Dog - PC: 3 - Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
Fenris - PC: 8 - Fenris (Continued) Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9 - Man-O-War Drakhun (Continued) Yuri the Axe - PC: 0 Hermit of Henge Hold - PC: 0 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1
Greylord Outriders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Very aggressive and lots of speed. Devout and Vilmon stick near Vlad. Groups of Uhlans head to the flanks backed by either the Drakhun or Fenris. Outriders deploy centrally and head towards whatever they can spray down. Grolar is there to fix any hard problems. Yuri finds an awkward wood to hide behind. Went 3/1 with it this last weekend.
How is everyone else finding the Old Faith?
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Aug 19, 2019 2:53:35 GMT
I ran this last Saturday at a small event:
--------------- List 1: Theme: Warriors of the Old Faith 75 / 75 Army
Vladimir Tzepesci, Great Prince of Umbrey - WJ: +27 - Judicator - PC: 35 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27)
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Yuri the Axe - PC: 0 Hand of Silence - PC: 7 Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Flame Bringers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 17 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12
List 2: Theme: Warriors of the Old Faith 75 / 75 Army
Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages - WJ: +29 - Scourge of Heresy - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Dervish - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
Winter Guard Gun Carriage - PC: 17
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Yuri the Axe - PC: 0 Wrack - PC: 1 Hand of Silence - PC: 7
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12 Flame Bringers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 11
---------------
A silly pair, but I wanted to be able to say I was playing 2 factions simultaneously!
Had a lot of fun, but ran into a lot of lists with either high quality shooting or being outthreatened, both of which make for a hard game in this theme.
What do you like as a pair for vlad?
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Post by hamicron on Aug 19, 2019 6:47:28 GMT
Had a lot of fun, but ran into a lot of lists with either high quality shooting or being outthreatened, both of which make for a hard game in this theme. What do you like as a pair for vlad? The list certainly can’t attrition very well. Lacks the models or armour to do so. Most of my games were done by turn four so far. So I’d look to something that can grind out the distance. I’ve not settled on anyone yet but Witch2 or Irusk2 are top contenders. Yeah good shooting can make this list very sad. That said there are some WotOF builds which I think can be very good into shooting. There’s a Reznik list I’d love to run when I’m rich enough to afford all the extra models! Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages - WJ: +29 - War Dog - PC: 3 - Scourge of Heresy - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) Fenris - PC: 8 - Fenris (Continued) Hand of Silence - PC: 7 Champion of the Order of the Wall - PC: 8 - Champion of the Order of the Wall (Continued) Champion of the Order of the Wall - PC: 8 - Champion of the Order of the Wall (Continued) Menite Archon - PC: 8 Menite Archon - PC: 8 Wrack - PC: 1 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Hermit of Henge Hold - PC: 0 Yuri the Axe - PC: 0 Initiates of the Wall - Leader & Grunts: 7 Initiates of the Wall - Leader & Grunts: 7 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Kossite Woodsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 That’s 7 shieldguards that can be armour 21. And when they die it’ll proc the Righteous/Swift Vengeance on the Paladins and Archons. 4 Threshers plus the feat should dissuade hordes, plus a whole load of anti magic abilities.
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Post by hamicron on Aug 19, 2019 13:00:59 GMT
Also D3Z how did you find Hand of Silence? I’ve got him on order but I’m not sure what I’ll chop to fit him in?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Aug 19, 2019 17:56:07 GMT
Had a lot of fun, but ran into a lot of lists with either high quality shooting or being outthreatened, both of which make for a hard game in this theme. What do you like as a pair for vlad? That’s 7 shieldguards that can be armour 21. And when they die it’ll proc the Righteous/Swift Vengeance on the Paladins and Archons. 4 Threshers plus the feat should dissuade hordes, plus a whole load of anti magic abilities. I just double checked this on the crad database but Champions dont have vengeance and also dont get it from Vilmon, because Vilmon's elite cadre only works for "Paladin of the Order of the Wall" models, unlike the Champions's leadership which works for "Paladin" models. So you'd need to include actual Paladins into your list for it to work like you described. That or I am overseeing something critical, which would not be the first time. Edit: Okay scratch that, I bothered to do some research. Vilmon's rule is simply poorly worded garbage and they released an infernal ruling that Champions also count as Paladins of the Order of the Wall, and apparently they are okay with the confusion rather than updating the card at any point in time. Hrrrmpff
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Post by sand20go on Aug 19, 2019 18:46:24 GMT
I will let menoth vets chime in but I really worry about REz without Maddy. Feels like without her he has to sit back and be an expensive BC bot and not really get much value out of Lamentation. Would, perhaps, Feora be a better choice? Best would have been Durst with Decel. Oh well........
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Post by auraco on Aug 19, 2019 19:19:50 GMT
I will let menoth vets chime in but I really worry about REz without Maddy. Feels like without her he has to sit back and be an expensive BC bot and not really get much value out of Lamentation. Would, perhaps, Feora be a better choice? Best would have been Durst with Decel. Oh well........ I have no idea what you're talking about in that first sentence... Local nickname are not necessarely common knowledge here... I'm pretty sure Durst would have been a pretty bad caster here, but that might come from my general dislike about Durst in general. I think having the hermit and initiates in the list go a long way to keep casters alive, especially the casters that have part of their kit requiring them to be close to the frontline, like Feora3 and Reznik2.
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Post by hamicron on Aug 19, 2019 20:03:32 GMT
Okay scratch that, I bothered to do some research. Vilmon's rule is simple poorly worded garbage and the they released an infernal ruling that Champions also count as Paladins of the Order of the Wall, and apparently they are okay with the confusion rather than updating the card at any point in time. Hrrrmpff Haha I know right. Tied myself in knots finding a ruling myself! Clear as mud. As to your point Sandogo you might be right as my Reznik list is a purely hypothetical beast till I can proxy it up. But hopefully the sheer quantity of manoeuvrable large bases can gum up any melee charges. Pretty comfortable withstanding shooting with that many shield guards around. I think any WotOF list has to play it a bit aggressive (maybe not Kreoss) as you simply need every model contributing. No sitting safely at the back for you warcaster!
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Post by sand20go on Aug 19, 2019 20:06:14 GMT
I will let menoth vets chime in but I really worry about REz without Maddy. Feels like without her he has to sit back and be an expensive BC bot and not really get much value out of Lamentation. Would, perhaps, Feora be a better choice? Best would have been Durst with Decel. Oh well........ I have no idea what you're talking about in that first sentence... Local nickname are not necessarely common knowledge here... I'm pretty sure Durst would have been a pretty bad caster here, but that might come from my general dislike about Durst in general. I think having the hermit and initiates in the list go a long way to keep casters alive, especially the casters that have part of their kit requiring them to be close to the frontline, like Feora3 and Reznik2. Maddy = pretty common nick name for Madelyn Cobeau. A pretty standard Rez2 list is to put her as an attachment to him and then parlay every turn while hugging his but. Given the size of her bubble and the size of a Huge base there is no warrior model in the game that can touch Rez. You then put a devout B2B with him....so no spells (and a shield guard). He himself keeps a focus on so no non-magical weapon shots. With those 2 support models and focus the only things in the game that can hit him are magical range weapons (after any shield guards required) and non warrior melee attacks (so basically jacks and beasts and BEs). At Def 13, ARM 18 he is vulnerable to warriors. Maddy stops that. PS/Edit. That is not precisely true as I think about it. The retribution assassin solo can be RNG 4 on their weapon. But I think that is one of the only ones that is RNG > 2.
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Aug 20, 2019 0:36:03 GMT
Hand of Silence was good to score a flag as he could spray anything that came within 12" of it while scoring. However, after the discussions here around leveraging initiates to help against shooting, he was one of the first things I looked at to swap out.
RE Madelyn, you do need to keep reznik back more without her, but IMO having so many cav means you are generally ready to handle warrior models anyway. Reznik could perhaps threaten as the second while using all his BC/flesh is weak/spellpiercer?
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 20, 2019 6:53:30 GMT
After a bit of tinkering here's my first attempt:
Vladimir Tzepesci, Great Prince of Umbrey +27 -Crusader -10 -Devout -9 -Grolar -18 Champion of the Order of the Wall -8 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon -0(6) Man o War Drakhun -9 Vassal of Menoth -0(3) Vassal of Menoth -0(3) Yuri the Axe -0(5) Choir of Menoth (Min) -4 Flame Bringers (Max) -17 Initiates of the Wall -7 Iron Fang Ulhans (Max) -20
Will hopefully get a test game in before too long.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 20, 2019 9:27:18 GMT
Quick question:
Can you take one Vassal Mechanic and one Vassal of Menoth as a single requisition option? Warroom doesn't let you, but I'm not sure if that's just a bug with Warroom. From my reading you should be able to take one of each?
Cheers, Dave
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 20, 2019 15:54:34 GMT
Sorry for the double post for those of you who also troll the Menoth forum. That said...
Woo hoo!
I just completed an army swap trade for Menoth. As you know I'm a loyal to the Empress, but have had a Grymkin army collecting dust for two years. I've been wanting to play Warriors of the Old Faith, and so have been shopping my Grymkin army around in hopes of trading for a Menoth army with most of the models I would need to run WotoF.
Well, I hit the jackpot and am very happy with the trade I made. My new army is posted below.
So now I'm thinking about list building.
In addition to Vlad 3, I own - Vlad 3 - 1 Gun Carriage, 1 Chariot - 2 Drakhun - Fenris - max unit of Uhlans, Markov - Yuri, 2X Manhunters, 12 Kossites (2 min, or 1 max) - Menite Archon - the Hermit
In terms of running Warriors of the Old Faith, I now need to figure out what are my "go to" models from what I now own...
Also...What key models do you think I should still buy? In particular... (a) Feora 3 ... I'm inclined to purchase her just so that I have all 3 WotoF casters. (b) Exemplar Vengers ... I'm disinclined to purchase these since I already own painted Uhlans and this unit seems to be a bit of a sideways swap. (c) Initiates of the Wall ... these guys look good. Maybe a bit slow for Cavalry but maybe not with Vlad 3. Would you recommend buying one unit? I'm a little stuck on list building now that I have all these new options. I want to try Vlad 3 first. I'm not really sure about the jack load out. On the one hand, I really want a Judicator with Vlad 3. The Menite archon looks really good with him. I think Vlad also wants a Devout.
For units...damn, the Uhlans, Flame Bringers, and Outriders all look good but I think only one max unit fits with the Judicator and a Devout. That said, dropping the Devout allows you to fit in all 3 units... But damn! Where is there now room for a battle engine!
So many options...
*Casters*
Amon
Cyrenia
Durst
Feora 1, 2
Harbinger of Menoth
High reclaimer
Kreoss 1, 2
Kreoss 3
Malakus
Reznick 1, 2
Sev 1,2
Testement of Menoth
Vindicus (NIB)
Vindicus
*Warjacks*
Avatar of Menoth 1X (assembled)
Avatar of Menoth x1 (NIB)
Blessing of vengeance x1
Blood of martyrs
Castigator x1
Castigator, reckoner, sanctifier x4
Crusader x1
Crusader, templar, vanquisher kit x2
Dervish, devout, purifier kit x2
Devout metal x1
Fire of salivation x1
Guardian x1
Guardian, indictor kit x1
Indictor x1
Judicator x1
Judicator/Revelator x1 (magnetized)
Redeemer x2
Revenger x2
Vigilant x3
*Units*
Exemplar Bastions x2
Choir x1
Exemplar Cinerators x1 (NIB)
Exemplar Cinerators x2 with ca (Assembled)
Daughters of the flame x1
Exemplar Errants x1
Exemplar Knights x3
Flame Bringers x1
Rhoven and Honor Guard
*Solos*
Bastion Senschal x2
Paladin of Order of the Wall Solo (Assembled) x2
Champion of the order of the Wall Cavalry x1
Elias Gade x1
Exemplar Errant seneschal x1
Exemplar officer x1
High Exemplar Gravus x1
Hand of Silence x1
Heirophant x1
Hierophant x1 (NIB)
Mechanik x1
Order of the fist x2
Reclaimer x1
Sevi 0
Vassel of Menoth x2
Vilmon x1
Warden x1
Wracks x3
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Post by auraco on Aug 20, 2019 17:18:34 GMT
The initiates are a must buy! Every Warrior of the old faith list should start with at least one unit! Two is less necessary.
As for the vengers, well... They are just strait up better than the ulhans, I easily see them as an upgrade to the ulhans... And the package Ulhan Markov is really less good than Vengers Gravus. I know the vengers are expansive but their also better points for points than the ulhans...
Feora3 seems weird, her kit is pretty bare bones, people tend to complain about her getting killed, having access to initiates and the hermit in the list clearly help her with that, no sure if it helps her enough to make her an interesting choice, she's currently the least interesting caster choice for warrior of the old faith in my opinion.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 20, 2019 17:40:30 GMT
The initiates are a must buy! Every Warrior of the old faith list should start with at least one unit! Two is less necessary. As for the vengers, well... They are just strait up better than the ulhans, I easily see them as an upgrade to the ulhans... And the package Ulhan Markov is really less good than Vengers Gravus. I know the vengers are expansive but their also better points for points than the ulhans... Feora3 seems weird, her kit is pretty bare bones, people tend to complain about her getting killed, having access to initiates and the hermit in the list clearly help her with that, no sure if it helps her enough to make her an interesting choice, she's currently the least interesting caster choice for warrior of the old faith in my opinion. I think that the Vengers vs. Uhlans is close but the key tipping point for the Vengers is sprays. For the Uhlans to shine they have to be in B2B which is just BAD for sprays. But after Venger #1 gets damaged they get to the same armor but spread out - minimizing their losses. Downside - I don't own em and I hate the idea of spending more ;-) Going to disagree about F3 being "least interesting". Giving her access to spray ponies with incite actually COULD make things fun. To me the least interesting is K3 - because it isn't clear to me he ever really would mix and match from the stable of choices - I guess the "interesting" point is that you can play Vengers and murder girls on Ponies if you want to....though not sure why since Vengers are getting divine inspiration as a Cadre with him.
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