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Post by maxtermynd on Aug 13, 2019 18:56:26 GMT
Hey folks, ever since the theme force remix I've been thinking about building lists with both Sorscha0 and Malakov1. With the new steamroller packet emphasizing handling multiple fields of engagement having the ability to split your forces while still staying supported seems to be a good idea. There's also the bonus that when used together our juniors can make a pretty potent battlegroup, functioning with little to no warcaster support quite well. Just by themselves you can get the redlined jack in Malakov's battlegroup to threaten 12" and hit like a truck, while Sorscha provides not only boundless charge but also a concealment aura to help protect the squishy little guys. Warcaster Choice Ideally we're looking for a warcaster that can do at least one of three things: - Help protect the junior battlegroup, ideally without having to be present on that side of the board
In this group I'll include both Old Witches. OW1 can provide a Murder of Crows to protect the juniors while using either the forest from Jaws or Winter Guard bodies to protect herself, and OW2 can throw 18" of Windstorm, which may help as well. They can also help in other ways throughout the game, but those are the main points. - Help speed up the junior battlegroup, ideally without having to be present on that side of the board. Our Superiority and Quicken casters can throw their upkeep on either Malakov's second jack or Sorscha's jack to get more 12" threats, though Sorscha would have problems fueling hers. There's also Kozlov and Strakhov1's feats, though if operating on a flank it might be more difficult to get those to work.
Be able to tackle a flank effectively without needing the juniors' battlegroup. Butcher3 was the first 'caster I thought of with the double junior list as he can just mulch whatever is in front of him. Yes, he appreciates boundless charge, but it's not strictly needed for his kit if the scenario demands it.
Battlegroup Each of the juniors needs a battlegroup. Ideally we're looking for a scenario where the juniors can handle a flank on their own, so being able to deal with heavies and infantry is ideal. Ideas: - Malakov: 2x Juggernauts, Sorscha: Rager. Gives a shield guard, and Malakov can mostly fuel both of his jacks and send them in while Sorscha boundlesses both of them. Ideally run with a warcaster who can provide a speed buff early on so that we can get two 12" threating jacks.
- Malakov: Juggernaut, Sorscha: Beast09. Still keeps a shield guard, but now with greater redundancy on the heavies and more infantry mulching potential. Again, running this with a warcaster that can provide a speed boosting upkeep would be ideal, and if the points are there maybe a Forgeseer to help ease the focus load.
- Malakov: Juggenaut, Sorscha, Behemoth. Sorscha is safer and contribute to other parts of the battlefield as well, while the Juggernaut and Behemoth take care of anything in their chosen zone. Expensive, but could be worth it.
So, what do y'all think? Am I crazy, or is there something here? Below is the list I'm going to use to try out the concept and see how it works. I don't think it's the most competitive version of the list, but it uses models I own and just might work. conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1mhDf8nje3kWkWlOkZcfcgchchKhador [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Strakhov 2] Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22] - Victor [34] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4] - Juggernaut [13] - Juggernaut [13] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4] - Rager [10] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4] Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)] Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)] |
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Post by sand20go on Aug 13, 2019 20:12:46 GMT
Hey folks, ever since the theme force remix I've been thinking about building lists with both Sorscha0 and Malakov1. With the new steamroller packet emphasizing handling multiple fields of engagement having the ability to split your forces while still staying supported seems to be a good idea. There's also the bonus that when used together our juniors can make a pretty potent battlegroup, functioning with little to no warcaster support quite well. Just by themselves you can get the redlined jack in Malakov's battlegroup to threaten 12" and hit like a truck, while Sorscha provides not only boundless charge but also a concealment aura to help protect the squishy little guys. Warcaster Choice Ideally we're looking for a warcaster that can do at least one of three things: - Help protect the junior battlegroup, ideally without having to be present on that side of the board
In this group I'll include both Old Witches. OW1 can provide a Murder of Crows to protect the juniors while using either the forest from Jaws or Winter Guard bodies to protect herself, and OW2 can throw 18" of Windstorm, which may help as well. They can also help in other ways throughout the game, but those are the main points. - Help speed up the junior battlegroup, ideally without having to be present on that side of the board. Our Superiority and Quicken casters can throw their upkeep on either Malakov's second jack or Sorscha's jack to get more 12" threats, though Sorscha would have problems fueling hers. There's also Kozlov and Strakhov1's feats, though if operating on a flank it might be more difficult to get those to work.
Be able to tackle a flank effectively without needing the juniors' battlegroup. Butcher3 was the first 'caster I thought of with the double junior list as he can just mulch whatever is in front of him. Yes, he appreciates boundless charge, but it's not strictly needed for his kit if the scenario demands it.
Battlegroup Each of the juniors needs a battlegroup. Ideally we're looking for a scenario where the juniors can handle a flank on their own, so being able to deal with heavies and infantry is ideal. Ideas: - Malakov: 2x Juggernauts, Sorscha: Rager. Gives a shield guard, and Malakov can mostly fuel both of his jacks and send them in while Sorscha boundlesses both of them. Ideally run with a warcaster who can provide a speed buff early on so that we can get two 12" threating jacks.
- Malakov: Juggernaut, Sorscha: Beast09. Still keeps a shield guard, but now with greater redundancy on the heavies and more infantry mulching potential. Again, running this with a warcaster that can provide a speed boosting upkeep would be ideal, and if the points are there maybe a Forgeseer to help ease the focus load.
- Malakov: Juggenaut, Sorscha, Behemoth. Sorscha is safer and contribute to other parts of the battlefield as well, while the Juggernaut and Behemoth take care of anything in their chosen zone. Expensive, but could be worth it.
So, what do y'all think? Am I crazy, or is there something here? Below is the list I'm going to use to try out the concept and see how it works. I don't think it's the most competitive version of the list, but it uses models I own and just might work. conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1mhDf8nje3kWkWlOkZcfcgchchKhador [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Strakhov 2] Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22] - Victor [34] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4] - Juggernaut [13] - Juggernaut [13] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4] - Rager [10] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4] Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)] Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)] Some random thoughts as I read..... I have now something like 30 games with S0 under belt. I think you will find SHE is not really a flanker. She wants to be near your casters battle group (in most builds) because you want to be able to move 6 and get BC on them. Absent that you are missing a lot with her. ANDY, on the other hand, can very much operate with a good beat stick and then 3 points of mechanics for both protection and for taking off any inopportune red line damage. I need to use him more in this way and build lists. Unclear to me that he needs much more protection than that. I think I would always be worried about putting multiple jacks on my Junior. It is just game ending if they die and that will be what an opponent is shooting for. I think you will get minimimal value out of putting superiority on THEIR jack rather than Irusks or Strav. I am having a hard time imagining when that would be better. Quicken PERHAPS if I was running something janky like a Zerker under Sorscha cause DEF 15 feels well....good......_IF_ I subsequently last stand it. Boom baby boom. Regarding your list....I just hate the idea that you are giving up so much of strakov2's armor stacking feat. Those KAs are STILL going to melt. But if you have Strakov 1 why not move the Jugger under him? You can do silly things with Overrun on Victor and get the Jugger up the field. You will be surprised how far that red lined Jugger under something you catch in your feat can go ;-) Sorsha there for Boundless charge. Your Kayazy will also threaten for days. Good times. |
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Post by borderprince on Aug 14, 2019 6:08:29 GMT
Definitely worth considering lists with both the Juniors. However, I don't think either of them needs more than one jack. Sorscha0 has no BG buffs, so no reason to expand her BG (and like sand20go says, you probably want her near your caster's BG). Malakov1 runs one jack really well, but doesn't really benefit a second.
I'd also agree with sand20go about Malakov1 being a competent (and not too expensive) flanking package. Do consider a Kodiak over a Juggernaut with him though. Redline gets it to respectable hitting power, Grab and Smash helps with scenario through throws and (perhaps most importantly) Vent Steam means you have a BG that can deal with both ARM and some warrior models. You want that kind of flexibility in a module that may well be detached from the core of your list.
OW2 is probably a good call for this kind of list. Range Amplifier means she could get Boundless Charge on Malakov1's jack from 11" away (after moving). You lose her BG buffs, but don't need the Focus so much, so it's less of an issue. However, OW2 has less need for Sorscha0 (although Windstorm + Fog of War is lots of anti-shooting tech).
Might also be worth considering Irusk2? In the themes where our juniors are allowed, he provides good infantry support, but not much for the jacks. Solid Ground also helps with survivability, or at least might mean your juniors don't need to overboost to protect from blast damage. And Irusk2 can sometimes be quite bricky, as well as struggling against higher ARM (which Malakov helps with). Ask not what your caster can do for your junior, but what your junior can do for your caster and all that.
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 14, 2019 9:54:01 GMT
I wouldn't put more than one jack on any of them, and I probably wouldn't put anything other than a Devastator or Destroyer on Sorscha0 as she will mostly be using her focus for other things.
OW2 is an excellent shout; she also plays nice with Forge Seer marshaling since BC, Crush, Empower is quite a powerful module.
Kozlov and Strakhov1's feats both affect non-battlegroup jacks. You lose free charges from S1, but Redline and BC can help there anyway.
B2 loves strong independent women warjacks as they can still get tokens from his feat without stressing his focus.
B1 likes them for much the same reason.
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