eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Aug 5, 2019 17:58:30 GMT
Am I missing something ? The wasp's animus is COST2 so you need one wasp / shredder ? And Absy is unlikely to spam the animus with Fury6. Then I guess you only need the one shredder if ennemies are spaced out correctly and don't tough. You'd almost need another wasp to run and trigger flank ?
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 5, 2019 20:02:42 GMT
Am I missing something ? The wasp's animus is COST2 so you need one wasp / shredder ? And Absy is unlikely to spam the animus with Fury6. Then I guess you only need the one shredder if ennemies are spaced out correctly and don't tough. You'd almost need another wasp to run and trigger flank ? The biggest problem with Abby2 and a lot of shredders isnt dealing with heavies or battle engines, its that 1+ fury to kill one single wound infantryperson is a horrendous value out of lessers. With free charges and mat 7 from alpha hunter, shredders with killing spree can kill multiple models per fury, and the only swap u need is to run one less shredder and add a wasp as an animus bot. Instead of maxing out on 5 heavies, maybe running four with a wasp and some shredders will offer better scenario coverage, something like this: Absylonia, Daughter of Everblight - WB: +28 - Ammok the Truthbearer - PC: 0 - Proteus - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Carnivean - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Carnivean - PC: 18 - Golab - PC: 17 - Blight Wasp - PC: 3 - Shredder - PC: 4 - Shredder - PC: 4 - Shredder - PC: 4 - Shredder - PC: 4 Swamp Gobber Chef - PC: 1 The Forsaken - PC: 4 The Forsaken - PC: 4 Spell Martyr - PC: 1 Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 0 Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 0 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2 THEME: Primal Terrors ---
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Aug 5, 2019 20:58:27 GMT
Curious for testresults, but with an animuscost of 2 and the need for reach from the feat I am a bit sceptical as to how much mileage you'll get out of 4 shredders.
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 5, 2019 21:20:10 GMT
Curious for testresults, but with an animuscost of 2 and the need for reach from the feat I am a bit sceptical as to how much mileage you'll get out of 4 shredders. Why do u need reach? Shredders are four points and sturdier than ur average 4 point solo. They can get into zones cheaply and make a few more points than theyre worth doing it while being able to kill single wound infantry at a better ratio than ur heavies. I guesss, I think of this as an option into a list with 10-20 single would infantry i dont wanna waste heavies on killing. If theres like 30-40 dudes, sure ull feat for reach, but thats so much stuff for a fury driven battlegroup to clear out that u probably lose that game on scenario anyway.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 6, 2019 1:03:36 GMT
So, 1 wasp/2 shredder? You are loosing out on the stacking +1 with wasps but the flanking is better, yes? You could have Abby cast the animus 6 times.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Aug 6, 2019 6:19:06 GMT
She can't, that animus costs 2 fury to cast (as it stands) Curious for testresults, but with an animuscost of 2 and the need for reach from the feat I am a bit sceptical as to how much mileage you'll get out of 4 shredders. Why do u need reach? Shredders are four points and sturdier than ur average 4 point solo. They can get into zones cheaply and make a few more points than theyre worth doing it while being able to kill single wound infantry at a better ratio than ur heavies. I guesss, I think of this as an option into a list with 10-20 single would infantry i dont wanna waste heavies on killing. If theres like 30-40 dudes, sure ull feat for reach, but thats so much stuff for a fury driven battlegroup to clear out that u probably lose that game on scenario anyway. I think your opponents are really kind if they allow you to ping-pong a 0,5" reach model through their units, that just doesn't happen where I play.
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Aug 6, 2019 10:10:14 GMT
My experience with the Waps before the nerf: - outside of feat, ennemies have to be packed really really tight for one wasp to kill multiples models with its 0.5 melee range. People usually don't do that, except when they just killed one of your heavies with a bunch of infantry - in which case they are packed nicely ! - during feat, I usually need 2 or 3 wasps to cleanup one unit of ~10 dudes (I can remember exactly one time when 1 wasp ran through 8 dudes in a chain). 2" melee range helps, but you're still moving only 1" between attacks and it's not hard to place infantry models so that the chain stops early (without taking tough into accounts... a lot of infantry heavy lists have tough on some/most units).
I see no reason for this to change with solos shredders. So I'd expect to need the animus 2 or 3 times during feat turn to cleanup one infantry unit. Which looks extremely costly for absy2, on the paper.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 6, 2019 16:55:07 GMT
She can't, that animus costs 2 fury to cast (as it stands). I am a doof for thinking that they would not be doofs.
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 6, 2019 17:12:48 GMT
I think its unreasonable to imagine a 4 point beast eating more than 4 points of infantry with the blight wasp animus, but if ur lesser isnt doing it then you r hoping that one of ur heavies is able to eat those infantry instead. This is a 19 point package, so a little more expensive than a legion heavy, that can play as individual beasts for things like scenario, picking off solos, or maybe eating a small clump of single wound infantry while still having the flexibility to go full Voltron Force into a heavy on abbys feat turn and deliver 4 charging mat 9 pow 12 weaponmasters with 8 boosts to spare. Looking at other killing spree solos like the Night Witch in Circle, they seem reasonable and much more flexible over adding an angelius or carnivean and extra spell martyrs.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Aug 6, 2019 17:42:39 GMT
Absolutely, with a select few warlocks a couple of shredders will pose problems to certain targets. I just don't think big units are among these targets, even with that animus. I think a throne and a unit of farrow briggands has you covered much better in that regard, while also having uses besides just that.
I'll probably never have three points left for a wasp, but if I would and also had a couple of shredders, sure. Give it a go.
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Post by copperflame on Aug 6, 2019 18:05:49 GMT
The list I theorycrafted up was pretty much the same as yours josephkerr . I tend to play more into Arm (specifically Jacks) than infantry spam. I'll need to test to see how it fairs. dirtyharrypotter I know that the Throne would be better anti-infantry tech but I don't think I like the idea of running Abby2 with the Throne. It would be better but I'm just not sure I like the feels... >.>
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Post by custardboy on Aug 6, 2019 21:42:50 GMT
Killing spree at mat 5 pow 10, 0.5" melee and 2 fury is worthless. That's what the battle boar has, and only Skorne can make it into an option. You need to have Abby2 to even consider it.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Aug 7, 2019 6:34:38 GMT
Which has lead me to conclude that STINGERS ARE FINALLY THE SHIT NOW! A cool spray at rat4, crits that sometimes allow it to do something, and truth be told it has a nice animus. Most importantly it has double the meleerange of it's lesser brethren. 4 points of awesomeness right there.
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Post by drakkenblut on Aug 17, 2019 19:29:58 GMT
Well, this emboldens me to try the spawning vessels again. Two min spawning vessels, Spirit Cauldron, two Beast Mistresses, Lyl2 (because soothing song) and the rest to taste. Keep pumping out two lessers every turn as the situation requires, maybe something good comes out of the whole mess.
I don't believe a wasp is worth the points at army creation, a Harrier is superior even if it is just by a small margin.
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Post by drakkenblut on Aug 17, 2019 19:48:53 GMT
Oh, just to pitch an idea
Thag2 with sac pawn. If he sac pawns a Wasp, there is a better chance it gets killed (ARM 11) and Thag getting the two Fury off it than with other lessers.
Could be a better value than a Harrier in that single unique case.
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