Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224 
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Post by Zaku on Jul 30, 2019 2:15:58 GMT
So before Oblivion, I had been experimenting with Vlad2 Jaws lists to moderate success, and with the update I have managed to get a few games in with them and it feels good.
While Vlad2 likes having more options, I haven't found myself without feat Targets between the Manhunters, two units of Kayazy Eliminators, and Forge Seers when I use them if other feat options are dead.
My biggest weakness I felt with Vlad2 in Jaws before Oblivion was Pathfinder on the 'jacks. Well, native Pathfinder on Khador heavies rocks... What are the opinions you all have of Vlad2 in this theme. Not enough feat options if key models get sacked? Not a good enough toolkit to run 4-5 Khador 'jacks? Does Vlad2 bring something good to this theme?
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Post by sand20go on Jul 30, 2019 2:27:23 GMT
Why not strakov1 in 2olves for combined arms? Better at it.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 30, 2019 2:55:18 GMT
I dont think jaws lacks good feat targets, i think you run into the problem of not being able to effectively use his kit. Hand of fate doesn't stack with assail, his main Jack buff. Arcane might is warrior only. He's a very high focus hog caster, so i don't think he lends to big jack groups, unless its all marauders.
I dont want to be a debbie downer, maybe you can find a list that works for him. JAWs also just lost valachev so that hurts vlad2.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 30, 2019 3:51:29 GMT
arcane might + eliminators has buttsexed more than one model in games ive played
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jul 30, 2019 4:06:19 GMT
Why not strakov1 in 2olves for combined arms? Better at it. It does seem nice, but I currently only own models for Jaws and WGK right now. Trying to make it work with what I have got already. arcane might + eliminators has buttsexed more than one model in games ive played I have experienced this feeling as well, and it is pretty glorious. Having 4 Eliminators under Vlad2's feat can be a real thorn in my opponent's side while I am bringing my 'jacks up as a second wave. This is what I am trying out right now: Khador [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Behemoth [25] - Juggernaut [13] - Juggernaut [13] - Spriggan [17] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4] - Berserker [8] Manhunter [4] Manhunter [4] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Yuri the Axe [0(5)] Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)] Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)] Kossite Woodsmen (min) [6] I am thinking of buying a few Marauders to replace the Juggernauts to free up 4 points, and possibly take a Forge Seer to pump Focus into Big B, and score flags. |
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Post by benjamini on Jul 30, 2019 4:40:26 GMT
If you really wanted to do this, it might be worth it to hand off some of the jacks to the Journeymen casters to take some of the focus load. Pretty much everything Vlad can do for jacks does not require the jacks to actually be in his BG.
It's worth keeping in mind that Vlad's feat can't target characters. So it might be worth throwing in some Kayazy Assassins? Alternatively, provided the positioning works out, Kossites or Forge Seers can work in a pinch. Speaking of Kossites, ambushing/charging and using Arcane Might to boost their melee accuracy could be interesting, but would require some careful positioning to not die. It's going to be hard to get hand of fate on the Kossites, but they could use it.
I think a colossal might be interesting on Vlad instead of Behemoth and some other things if you had the ability to do so. Both of them make a decent hand of fate target if you had otherwise small units. Perhaps something like this might be somewhat effective? Your results may vary - I'm a sucker for Forge Seer Marshaled Ragers if they can be given a free charge, so there may be a better battlegroup composition... but I still think Vlad himself wants a Colossal, or at least no more than 2 jacks on his person if you wanted to do Behemoth + another cheap jack. Anyway, here goes my suggestions.
Without Kayazy Assassins:
Khador
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
[Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27]
- Victor [34]
- Greylord Adjunct [4]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
- Rager [10]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4]
- Marauder [11]
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4]
- Juggernaut [13]
Manhunter [4]
Manhunter [4]
Yuri the Axe [0(5)]
Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)]
Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)]
Kossite Woodsmen (min) [6]
With Kayazy Assassins:
Khador
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
[Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27]
- Victor [34]
- Greylord Adjunct [4]
Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4]
- Marauder [11]
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4]
- Marauder [11]
Manhunter [4]
Manhunter [4]
Yuri the Axe [0(5)]
Kayazy Assassins (max) [15]
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4]
Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)]
Kayazy Eliminators [0(5)]
Kossite Woodsmen (min) [6]
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Post by borderprince on Jul 30, 2019 8:00:09 GMT
If you really wanted to do this, it might be worth it to hand off some of the jacks to the Journeymen casters to take some of the focus load. Pretty much everything Vlad can do for jacks does not require the jacks to actually be in his BG. I'd agree with this. You've already got Sorscha0, but Malakov1 gives you another speed buff for a jack, and a hitting power buff, which is something Vlad2 doesn't give.
Sorscha0 also really doesn't need a melee jack. I've used her with Behemoth a bit. It's an expensive package, but she can afford to upkeep Fog of War, allocate 1 to Behemoth and still have 2 for a clutch Boundless Charge. If you're saving Behemoth for late game, that works. Alternatively, consider a Destroyer or a Rager.
Malakov1 can just be given a big beater. He can afford the Focus to run it well and trade up (key turn - power-up, cast Redline, allocate 2 - that's a lot of potential damage). Marauders, Kodiaks and Juggernauts all work well.
Marshalling is possible - Vlad2's Assail spell doesn't require a battlegroup jack, so you can use it to get a free charge on a marshalled jack which also has Crush for the +2 POW (also via Sorscha0 and Boundless Charge). Not sure I would bother, but it's possible.
Definitely get some Marauders - they're a staple piece in Khador lists now, and really good for their points. Assail on Marauders is fun times (not as fun as with Hammersmiths in Cygnar, but still good).
I think you're right that you don't need lots of warrior models for Vlad2 if you can keep the key ones safe (which is why Vlad2 in Wolves has lots of Doomreavers). Eliminators and Manhunters all have some protection from shooting before you feat and unleash them. Yuri is then essential for giving the Manhunters Treewalker as their protection.
Based on what you've listed in your earlier list, maybe something like:
Vlad2
-Juggernaut
-Marauder
-Marauder
-Adjunct
Eliminators
Eliminators
Yuri
Manhunter
Manhunter
Sorscha0
-Behemoth
Malakov1
-Juggernaut
And that leaves you with 9 points to play with.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 30, 2019 8:36:17 GMT
I like the idea. The feat and Arcane Might are very good on Eliminators, and he can even make a Manhunter a scary, scary thing.
I don't know how heavily I'd lean into the jacks, though. 4 would seem like plenty.
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Post by benjamini on Jul 30, 2019 15:37:26 GMT
I like the idea. The feat and Arcane Might are very good on Eliminators, and he can even make a Manhunter a scary, scary thing. I don't know how heavily I'd lean into the jacks, though. 4 would seem like plenty. I think the thing that worries me the most is the lack of targets for the feat. In most of the permutations I have seen you only have 6 eligible targets for the feat, as you can't put it on characters - a Forge Seer could work in a pinch I supposed. I know it's 3+d3, but I still wish there was a bit of redundancy there (like if manhunters were FA 3 or something haha). Man, I wish you COULD put it on characters. One of the Journeyman + Feat + Arcane might would be AWESOME. |
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 30, 2019 16:08:41 GMT
Worth a try. Elims are still the best targets for V2's kit.
Now that you don't need to spam jacks you can take a colossal/behemoth on Vlad, take Andy with something, 2x big kayazi, 2x elims, snipers.
Should be good into infantry with jacks providing arm cracking if needed.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 30, 2019 17:04:26 GMT
If you take double Eliminators (which I think are mandatory here you need to DEFINITELY get saxon in the list (and be sure to use your objective for pathfinding. 1/2 speed eliminators are SAD eliminators and in this list the play is going to be to target them hard. You will need forests and Pie Plates of Nope to help you get them in to position.
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Post by michael on Jul 30, 2019 17:15:25 GMT
I say, feat on them warjacks! If your opponent complains you can’t do that, you just ignore him and do it anyway! If they keep it up you just slap them right across the mouth and declare you won the game! Yee-haw!
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Post by borderprince on Jul 31, 2019 7:04:40 GMT
I say, feat on them warjacks! If your opponent complains you can’t do that, you just ignore him and do it anyway! If they keep it up you just slap them right across the mouth This works best if you are holding an extreme Juggernaut at the time.*
*Obviously don't really do this. The extreme Juggernaut is expensive and you don't want to break it.
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Post by auraco on Jul 31, 2019 12:11:14 GMT
Doing it with an extreme juggernaut does show an intimidating level of commitment solidifying your place as the alpha tho.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 5, 2019 21:52:08 GMT
I think you need at least a min unit of Assassins with the Underboss to actually make the list work. With only 6 feat targets, you’re going to need to play your models way too defensively. It’s just not that hard to kill the murder girls with spells cast through arc nodes, eyeless shot aided ranged attacks and blast damage. I think going this route necessitates adding in Saxon as well.
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