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Post by Aegis on Jul 29, 2019 12:04:53 GMT
In the Dev Hangout of few weeks ago, they said that SD was going to get not only some point drops, but also some "power ups".
Where are them? I see only point discounts in the update...
Also, its since the beginning of CID that PP hinted at some complete overhaul of Stormguard that was going to happen with SD CID, but now that they made some changes, I think SD CID isn't going to happen soon.
So, why Stormguards weren't even touched? Now that Storm Blades are discounted, there are even less reasons to play the stormguard units they kept feeding us in almost every box that contained Cygnar miniatures...
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Jul 29, 2019 12:57:02 GMT
So the update (of the Themes) is in the Playstore, you need to uograde the app from there once. The point discounts are already in, but the Themes come with that update (and you need to switch to "oblivion Themes" in the main menu. Then you have access to Themes with the requisition system. I didn't think that there were more "power upgrades" coming, just a few point drops. And unyielding is now on all stormknights, maybe that is what they meant?
I think the Guard are one of the Reasons why Hungerford made that statement, that not everything is going to get overhauled, but just a few things and that they have the rest "on the radar". I am really suprised that Blades got cheaper actually. It is welcome sure, but they were in a good spot (ok they lost AD). I think stormuard just needs to lose tactitian and gain pretty much any rule instead to become interesting. Evene more so than any UA, because tactitian is very much redundant with what the Captain gives.
My guess is that they were thinking about the blades, because they had a Theme benefit before. I also think that Stormguard (and also regular long gunners, Rangers?) are a juicy CID opportunity. It is not game breaking so it is not urgent. But it is a little sad that the guard gets another layer of dust. I am really looking forward to using them at one point... You know after painting the entire unit... T.T
I am somewhat excited for Storm Divison non the less! Can squeeze in an additional UA in most cases!
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 29, 2019 16:38:05 GMT
Just point discount will not save poor Stormguards(both regular and Silver Line, although Silver Line is slightly better than vanilla). They need a meaningful role and they are need to actually perform that.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 5, 2019 8:13:41 GMT
They said for a lot of factions that more "actual" changes were in the pipe line, but they wanted to see where the new themes and point reductions would settle in the meta. They didn't want to take the risk of introducing buffs into a volatile meta that would turn out to be overpowering in the end. That sounds like a sensible idea, seeing as there's only so much testing time to go around, but I understand that it leaves people a bit disappointed.
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Post by jrock589 on Aug 21, 2019 23:40:09 GMT
Although the Stormguard would not be "Fixed" by a Point Reduction...it certainly would have been a nice way to experiment with them before a Rules change. If the Stormguard were, for example, 8/13 (Equivalent to the Sword Knights) or jeez even 7/12 it might have helped them fit a "Fodder" or "Speed bump" role. With Unyielding, and 8/13, they would at least have been interesting. You would have been able to get, for 13 points, a Unit that is effectively 12/20 in melee (With Arcane Shield). Those are decent stats for a speed bump unit.
In any event - I am sad to see they did not even get a scrap thrown their way. My Stormguard, and all their sad little finicky halbreds that I hated assembling, will be shelf-bound for the foreseeable future...having been pushed even further aside by cheaper Stormblades. /cry
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 22, 2019 7:02:16 GMT
Sadly even if they were 7/11 I doubt they have a place for us. Unyielding is only meaningful if they are actually in melee with them. So either...
-They are effortlessly slaughtered by the enemy ranged attack - DEF 12- and ARM 16- are not able to withstand enemy fire without buff -You must give Arcane Shield to them, and your only heavy warjack will be dismantled by the enemy before do anything or lure enough bullets. -You must pick the caster with good buff to protect them.
And, even if you can manage their flaw, Stormblade Infantry does far better when delivered, and their Officer have Iron Zeal as well. While what Stormguard Infantry can is simply killing infantry, but for this we can do it by the ranged attack, which is far easier and faster.
That's why I said simple point discount will not save them. They aren't expected to discounted to Mechanithrall level, or they are outclassed and no one need their corner case advantage.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Aug 22, 2019 10:38:00 GMT
Post theme update I have been finding myself mostly list experimenting with Storm division in spite of the fact I usually get very little benefit from the theme. Access to Brickhouse has meant exploring its potential and force hold (when used well) is a very powerful ability but there are still a lot of ways around it and it Brickhouse isn't actually tough enough or hard-hitting enough to justify without getting good work out of force hold. Kraye does a lot for him but I've been doing badly because it's too easy for a mistake to throw the game away. Nemo2 is a new avenue and the real star with him has been a pair of stormclads with captain helping provide excessive focus support on the way in. Two 17pt heavies as a second wave may sound wasteful but it helps Nemo2 enormously.
In all my storm division lists so far only Haley3 has actually put any storm knight units on the table and that is probably a sign that there are still serious problems with our infantry. Nothing has changed in that respect save for always getting 3 requisition slots.
Storm guard (both versions) might as well not exist and to perfectly honest the theme itself might as well just just be the requisition slots. It's still crap.
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Post by jrock589 on Aug 22, 2019 14:59:14 GMT
Sadly even if they were 7/11 I doubt they have a place for us. Unyielding is only meaningful if they are actually in melee with them. So either... -They are effortlessly slaughtered by the enemy ranged attack - DEF 12- and ARM 17- are not able to withstand enemy fire without buff -You must give Arcane Shield to them, and your only heavy warjack will be dismantled by the enemy before do anything or lure enough bullets. -You must pick the caster with good buff to protect them. And, even if you can manage their flaw, Stormblade Infantry does far better when delivered, and their Officer have Iron Zeal as well. While what Stormguard Infantry can is simply killing infantry, but for this we can do it by the ranged attack, which is far easier and faster. That's why I said simple point discount will not save them. They aren't expected to discounted to Mechanithrall level, or they are outclassed and no one need their corner case advantage. I agree. However, I think at 7/11 I would at least "try" them. Most of the Caster you will pick in SD are going to help fix their issues (Stryker1, Stryker2, Maddox, etc.), and at that kind of cost you can throw them in with limited impact. Would not be competitive by any means, but at least it would be worth throwing them in for a spin. My point really was just that, without any change, they aren't even worth looking at. At least with a point reduction we might want to dust them off for an attempt...even a doomed to failure attempt.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 23, 2019 6:34:37 GMT
My point really was just that, without any change, they aren't even worth looking at. At least with a point reduction we might want to dust them off for an attempt...even a doomed to failure attempt. To be honest, I think this was the wrong dynamic update for that. This was something that they thought some models needed to push them a little further, not to throw things at the wall and see what sticks; that's what CID is for. It's similar to how they didn't change anything at all to Mist Riders, even though they know they need it, but they said that actual changes are in the pipeline, they just need more time to test it.
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Post by hypnotoad on Aug 23, 2019 16:47:39 GMT
I don't think Stormguard will be playable until they give up on making them 12/15 SPD5 single wound infantry. A SPD5 frontline unit with no significant defensive tech is stupid. PP would have to make them so cheap they would be broken if they kept this exact statline.
My kneejerk suggested fixes for Silverline:
SPD 5 to SPD 6
Polarity Wall changes to a mini-feat that doesn't require being B2B.
Drop the leader's gun and just have Electroconduction damage buff apply to the unit's melee weapons on a hit.
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Post by jagius021 on Aug 24, 2019 15:11:30 GMT
Stormguard could get a an ability that gives force barrier and force barrier to anyone b2b with 2 stormguard. Toss on repo 3 and you have a unique unit with a specific roll to fill that rewards you for playing them well.
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Post by jrock589 on Aug 26, 2019 23:05:29 GMT
My point really was just that, without any change, they aren't even worth looking at. At least with a point reduction we might want to dust them off for an attempt...even a doomed to failure attempt. To be honest, I think this was the wrong dynamic update for that. This was something that they thought some models needed to push them a little further, not to throw things at the wall and see what sticks; that's what CID is for. It's similar to how they didn't change anything at all to Mist Riders, even though they know they need it, but they said that actual changes are in the pipeline, they just need more time to test it. Normally - I would agree with you. However, in the case of the Stormguard you are literally risking nothing by making a small incremental change to create experimentation. Stormguard are not making an impact on the meta (as they currently stand) whether they are the current cost, or they are 7/12, or 8/13. All you are doing is throwing them a bone, and hoping that a few players get some enjoyment out of the mix. Only time, IMHO, that these small incremental changes to "see what sticks" are bad is with units/models that could change the game. Otherwise, it's just gravy. It also kind of sucks that these are the Unit for Cygnar in one of the old two-player battleboxes. Lots of us (myself included) got saddled with a set of Stormguard without knowing they would never be useful....[/Cry]
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Post by mydnight on Aug 27, 2019 2:45:58 GMT
Stormguard could get a an ability that gives force barrier and force barrier to anyone b2b with 2 stormguard. Toss on repo 3 and you have a unique unit with a specific roll to fill that rewards you for playing them well. Here's hoping they create a UA that does this.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 27, 2019 14:19:34 GMT
Stormguard could get a an ability that gives force barrier and force barrier to anyone b2b with 2 stormguard. Toss on repo 3 and you have a unique unit with a specific roll to fill that rewards you for playing them well. Here's hoping they create a UA that does this. You are not alone sir, for a long time.
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midas
Read Page 5
Posts: 24
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Post by midas on Sept 3, 2019 14:10:49 GMT
guys, the update is already here, stop dreaming, nothing came true.
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