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Post by sand20go on Jul 29, 2019 16:11:32 GMT
What are big draw points for everyone? Lancer for arcnode, finally having vengeance infantry, or the less good man o war infantry? Zerkova 1 doesn't seem to be the best infantry caster or am i missing something? I really like the idea of FITD with blaize, but wasnt too drawn with any of the khador options yet. Entice me! The answer is going to depend upon whether you go lost souls, precursors or the new order of illumination
I have mostly thought about precusors....
- Vengeance on units with a once a game Weaponmaster mini-feat.
- Arc node to spam hex blasts from a safe distance (can zap out 2 with 2 focus left over for stuff)
- Give her a hurricane (loud and smart chris is SO right on that once you look at its rules) for the Best watcher target in the game (essentially a 6 inch "no go" zone unless you want to be knock downs/slammed.)
- morrow arcons that provide a very solid shield guard option.....as well as the def boost to start making it semi-hard to hit (Def 13 goes to 15 if within 5 of it) + Vet leadership
- Great Solos that synergize off her clouds - not for the LOS (though there is that) but really because if the -2 to hit. Now we can stack that with the Archons (so -4)...on models like Black Bella and Savio who you REALLY do not want to swing and miss....but kinda HAVE to if you don't want to die.
- (Note that while I am not planning on running her there are some silly things we can do with Jakes, a Gallent, sidekick, the Archon and the clouds - can you say Def 19 Gallent ;-)
Then there are the models not yet spoiled (so may change). All references from Warmachine University
As noted, for req. points you can pick up dirt cheap shield guards in the battle priests - who would trigger vengeance.
Another cheap req option (two for a card) is the Thalmite Advocate - who with sucker provides a means of again, triggering Venganeance but I think almost better (is their spell - "Hex Bolt" which shuts down power attacks. SO sad that jack can not charge. That is NOT shakeable ;-)
Gabriel Thorne is a monster solo. Provides tough to the precursors (who will then have Rise off the battle Priests). Provides Divine Inspiration to them (so S&P)...with mini-feat and charge you are looking at 5 dice drop lowest. WOW....
Finally for even MORE fun you pick up Glyn - whose gun TELEPORTS enemy models D3+1 inches.
At this point I am having a hard time thinking that the order of illumination models are a good choice but maybe I am not seeing all the tastiness there.
(Legion's synergies are with Thorne (he is a near autoinclude) for both guns and halbreds and Alexia 3 which gives them +2 Strength - so POW 14 (cost is currently 10/18). Oh - did I tell you they have a recursion element....and of course SHE has Passive necro so thrallnado - and even though the Legion are undead they provide souls for her).
What Zerkova brings to the table are:
Her Feat so she can deliver lost souls or Knights much better than the other options. Ashlyn's feat is also strong but I don't think as good. Fiona is really strong at delivery as well - but doesn't have the layered defensive tech of clouds & Watcher.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 29, 2019 16:40:02 GMT
Yeah essentially you take a caster that delivers expertly but has no damage fixes and desperately wants an Arc Node and put her in a theme that struggles to deliver but has arc nodes and lots of damage fixes.
It goes together like peanut butter and banana, Calvin and Hobbes, Trolls and alcohol..
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Post by auraco on Jul 29, 2019 16:43:35 GMT
Yeah essentially you take a caster that delivers expertly but has no damage fixes and desperately wants an Arc Node and put her in a theme that struggles to deliver but has arc nodes and lots of damage fixes. It goes together like peanut butter and banana, Calvin and Hobbes, Trolls and alcohol.. Yeah basically that, it fixes a lot of Zerkova's weakness and she help fix the weakness in the theme.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 29, 2019 16:44:19 GMT
What are big draw points for everyone? Lancer for arcnode, finally having vengeance infantry, or the less good man o war infantry? Zerkova 1 doesn't seem to be the best infantry caster or am i missing something? I really like the idea of FITD with blaize, but wasnt too drawn with any of the khador options yet. Entice me!
At this point I am having a hard time thinking that the order of illumination models are a good choice but maybe I am not seeing all the tastiness there.
I have the same impression. Unless Order units pick up some seriously tasty rule upon release, they are inferior to Legion+Knights. Heck they were already nerfed because they cant use Blaize's focus anymore to boosts their guns.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 29, 2019 16:47:07 GMT
I do agree i want to see what the other options will bring, but arcnode, hermit, vigilants, precursor knights all seem solid for zerkova. Do we have an idea on their release?
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Post by auraco on Jul 29, 2019 16:49:39 GMT
The resolutes are meh, like really meh, but the vigilants seem great to me, like I want to field double unit in most of my list great, especially with the leadership from glyn to help them deal with stealth.
Rat 7 pow 12 shot with blessed and a casual access to veteran leader for rat 8 shot, it doesn't need much of an explanation.
The resolutes tho, I don't even think I'm going to botter with buying the unit.
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Post by auraco on Jul 29, 2019 16:52:04 GMT
I do agree i want to see what the other options will bring, but arcnode, hermit, vigilants, precursor knights all seem solid for zerkova. Do we have an idea on their release? Taking mercenary jacks is also not terrible for Zerkova, she lacks a spd buff so her melee jacks tend to have a miserable 8'' threat range. Taking toros with her seems really great, natural 10'' threat range, countercharge, it's an overall great jack, the mat 6 is meh, but the rest of the army should be able to deal with high def easily with all the blessed in the theme, and access to Hex Blast.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 29, 2019 16:55:33 GMT
I do agree i want to see what the other options will bring, but arcnode, hermit, vigilants, precursor knights all seem solid for zerkova. Do we have an idea on their release? Taking mercenary jacks is also not terrible for Zerkova, she lacks a spd buff so her melee jacks tend to have a miserable 8'' threat range. Taking toros with her seems really great, natural 10'' threat range, countercharge, it's an overall great jack, the mat 6 is meh, but the rest of the army should be able to deal with high def easily with all the blessed in the theme, and access to Hex Blast. I also thought the same, im leaning on gallant. With z1 you dont technically lose the bond bonus because zerkova has it already! Also he threats a natural 10", add glynn and it's 12-14". Im starting to see the cool synergies. Toss hermit + lancer in there for some POW 14 sprays too.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 29, 2019 16:58:14 GMT
I love the look of the resolutes, but they dont feel any better than the knights. Not without some buffs, maybe with 3 battle priests they could get up the field.
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Post by auraco on Jul 29, 2019 17:02:52 GMT
I love the look of the resolutes, but they dont feel any better than the knights. Not without some buffs, maybe with 3 battle priests they could get up the field. Yeah don't waster your time with them, the knights get good benefits out of the battle priest too, and if I understand correctly, the priest also benefits from the shield wall order on top of that. You trade in the super situational execrator for the very good blessed, you have a great mini feat and vengeace on a 10 men unit is better than on a 5 men unit. I'm just wondering if the theme with Zerkova1 is good enough to be run as a counter gunline drop, access to a lot of cheap shield guard on top of Zerkova's kit might be enough for me to at least give it a try.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 29, 2019 18:21:06 GMT
I love the look of the resolutes, but they dont feel any better than the knights. Not without some buffs, maybe with 3 battle priests they could get up the field. Yeah don't waster your time with them, the knights get good benefits out of the battle priest too, and if I understand correctly, the priest also benefits from the shield wall order on top of that. You trade in the super situational execrator for the very good blessed, you have a great mini feat and vengeace on a 10 men unit is better than on a 5 men unit. I'm just wondering if the theme with Zerkova1 is good enough to be run as a counter gunline drop, access to a lot of cheap shield guard on top of Zerkova's kit might be enough for me to at least give it a try. That is my feeling. To me the list is going to be a clockwork/buffing solo list so having shield guards and a way of mitigating for a turn (or more!) shots is going to be hugely beneficial. Sorta like Siege in Trenchers.....which I got a chance to see how well it worked with the cloud wall and the solos to tune them up to 11's. On the subject of the vigilents, the main thing I am worried about is RNG 10 and no repo. They shoot and then they die and so at 2 points a man they better get some quality work done.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 29, 2019 20:24:32 GMT
They do seem costly at 2 points a pop. I think my list is only going to bring a min unit with Glynn and have them be for specific spot removal.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Jul 30, 2019 7:30:04 GMT
Another cheap req option (two for a card) is the Thalmite Advocate - who with sucker provides a means of again, triggering Venganeance but I think almost better (is their spell - "Hex Bolt" which shuts down power attacks. SO sad that jack can not charge. That is NOT shakeable ;-) Hex Bolt does NOT prevent charges. Finally for even MORE fun you pick up Glyn - whose gun TELEPORTS enemy models D3+1 inches. Glyn was heavily nerfed during CID. In the last update, her gun went down to RNG 10, the place was only 1", and you had to damage the enemy model in order to teleport it. We'll have to wait and see how she comes out.
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Post by auraco on Jul 30, 2019 10:13:24 GMT
Pretty sure Glyn is still worth it as a requisition option even just for the leadership true sight on the vigilants. She’s also no slouch in combat herself. The gun was neerfed during cid because it was way too good and needed to be nerfed.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 30, 2019 11:46:49 GMT
That doesn't seem like an unreasonable change. I wonder if it will stick as a 1" place and no damage required, seems like a strong middle ground.
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