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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 18, 2019 6:46:58 GMT
So, the theme is almost unchanged: It added Barathrum to the roster and allowed Riflemen "pods" and triple Machine Wraith or triple Misery Cages to the Requisition options. It also swapped out the +1 to go first for a reroll, like most (every?) other theme. This means that we will basically always have 19 free points from the Hellslinger Phantom and "pick 2 of the above", which is not bad. This doesn't fix any of the inherent problems of the Revenant Crew, namely that they don't do much besides a couple of Ghost Shots and not dying, permanently anyway. This does however open up some new options: - The "default" build now has 2 spare points for a Misery Cage.
- Wraith Engines do not cut into free points anymore, so there's the option to go with 2 of them and adding Barathrum to round out some melee hitting power, supported by shooting Revenants.
- I think if you're making the choice between a Wraith Engine and the Ghost Raiders, the latter will almost always lose, because they have weak attacks and less durability. They're also very expensive. However, this does open up a full incorporeal build where you ask very hard question to your opponent. Perhaps using Skarre 1 to deliver an incorporeal assassination to the opposing caster?
You'd probably still be remiss if you didn't use as many units of Revenant Crew as you possibly can, seeing as the main theme benefit still pertains to them. Any cool new tech you're seeing or things you're excited to try out? Skarre 1 Incorporeal: Cryx Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Ghost Fleet [Skarre 1] Pirate Queen Skarre [+28] - Stalker [8] - Stalker [8] - Stalker [8] - Stalker [8] Captain Rengrave [5] Hellslinger Phantom [0(7)] Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [0(6)] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [0(6)] Wraith Engine [15] Wraith Engine [15] Someone on facebook had this idea for a "hitting power" build: Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Deneghra 1] Warwitch Deneghra [+26] - Barathrum [15] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] Agrimony, Crone of the Dying Strands [4] Captain Rengrave [5] Hellslinger Phantom [0(7)] Misery Cage [2] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [0(6)] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [0(6)] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6] Wraith Engine [15] Wraith Engine [15] PS: I know the reveal is a bit underwhelming, but none of us probably expected them to revert the CID changes, so this was as good as it could possibly get. No use in complaining about it. |
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Post by tiberius on Jul 18, 2019 10:49:11 GMT
I have to agree, this doesn't really change up my builds either (mostly limited to my collection) but performance of the list is always predicated by who can help them hit harder...which is any parasite caster, Skarre and usually War Witch Deneghra. Turd polishers are great here obviously.
I think an all incorporeal list will be a lot of fun to build as we have not been able to do that since MKII with Wraith Witch Deneghra. I doubt it would be very good but it does ask the question of how many magic weapons did you bring? Since my primary opponent plays almost exclusively Protectorate with lots of exemplar, that is usually a lot.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206 
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Post by skurkious on Jul 18, 2019 15:41:30 GMT
I have a hard time justifying two WEs. They just don't seem to get enough done on their own, especially when I look at some of the newer BEs. Are you just hoping the opponent doesn't have enough magic weapons to remove them?
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Post by tiberius on Jul 18, 2019 16:31:05 GMT
It would definitely be matchup dependent and they do better in dark host in my opinion because the armor buff means more to an ARM 15 or 16 vs an ARM 12, but yes, if your opponent doesn't bring magic weapons, they are decent dark shroud platforms that can generate additional incorporeal models and are a big personal threat themselves. Under Skarre's feat and dark guidance, they can almost drop anything themselves.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Jul 19, 2019 3:15:55 GMT
We basically went from having one “solved” Ghost Fleet build to having 2 builds. The OG build likely just adds a Misery Cage & stays largely unchanged. Maybe it replaces some combination of the Cage/Cannon/Blackbane for a Mercenary option. The second build that opens up is the all Incorporeal list where you go full max FA on every Incorporeal option, so:
Cryx Army - 56 / 75 points
[Theme] The Ghost Fleet
Agrimony, Crone of the Dying Strands [4]
Hellslinger Phantom [0(7)]
Machine Wraith [0]
Machine Wraith [0]
Machine Wraith [0]
Pistol Wraith [0]
Pistol Wraith [5]
Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17]
Wraith Engine [15]
Wraith Engine [15]
Basically hard punish anyone who doesn’t have an obscene amount of magic attacks. I’ve never liked Incorporeal spam, but Skarre1 Wraith Engines has been good for a while. But now that Dark Host doesn’t have a monopoly on Double Wraith Engine builds I’m sure you’ll see the occasional double Wraith Engine Ghost Fleet build.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 19, 2019 6:11:13 GMT
I have a hard time justifying two WEs. They just don't seem to get enough done on their own, especially when I look at some of the newer BEs. Are you just hoping the opponent doesn't have enough magic weapons to remove them? It's not really about hoping. Even when Magical Weapons are available, there's a lot of things that don't one round a Wraith Engine. Most often the tech comes from Guidance or something similar, so only a couple of models can benefit from it at most. You stay away from the models that can one-round you and still have a large part of the board as your playing field. Especially when playing 2, so you can go wide, the tech models can't be everywhere at once. They are definitely best with Skarre 1 though. |
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Jul 19, 2019 15:13:56 GMT
I have a hard time justifying two WEs. They just don't seem to get enough done on their own, especially when I look at some of the newer BEs. Are you just hoping the opponent doesn't have enough magic weapons to remove them? It's not really about hoping. Even when Magical Weapons are available, there's a lot of things that don't one round a Wraith Engine. Most often the tech comes from Guidance or something similar, so only a couple of models can benefit from it at most. You stay away from the models that can one-round you and still have a large part of the board as your playing field. Especially when playing 2, so you can go wide, the tech models can't be everywhere at once. They are definitely best with Skarre 1 though. I mean I've seen them used effectively that way but just blows my mind that spending 30 points on pieces that just take up space is efficient!  |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 22, 2019 6:27:32 GMT
There were more spoilers over the weekend, so I renamed the thread.
Dark Host is basically the same, except it added the Void Archon as an entry, which means we can potentially take 2 and it doesn't take up our merc slot, which is semi-exciting. Requisition options are as before with the addition of 3 Necrotechs or 3 Machine Wraiths for a single requisition point. Especially the latter is quite nice, but I don't see myself changing my current lists to accommodate.
What's really exciting though, is the merger of Black Industries with Infernal Machines. It has every single option included that the two would've had separately, so this is now one of our broadest themes. In addition to that, they (deliberately) didn't add the character restriction on the warjacks, so we can finally play all of our cool jacks together, with Carapace, because we kept that. We also still get ambushing Mechanithralls. So we "lost" the extended deployment zone and the Hyper Aggressive "benefit".
Requisition options are also quite nice. We did lose the free light jacks, but can now take any small or medium based solo for free (hello Hellslinger Phantom) as well as getting 3 Brutes or 3 Necrotechs as a free option. We also kept the option for the Necrosurgeon, but I honestly don't see that one taking up my requisition points very often.
All in all, this is great as a jack theme that can now benefit from infantry (or Wraith Engine) support without shooting itself in the foot. If Thralls themselves don't change, I still don't see myself using this as an infantry theme very often, but time will tell.
So, right now we're only waiting for the living pirates, which are also rumored to merge.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 23, 2019 23:23:56 GMT
So the living themes did get merged. I am really surprised by that. My initial reaction is I don't like it. Not because of power level or how it affects me personally, but because satyxis almost completely outclass trollkin and ogrun. I don't own the slaughter fleet models (too expensive) but I didn't mind because I didn't like the infantry. It feels like it is really bad for the people who spent a lot of money on slaughter fleet models.  |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 24, 2019 6:41:20 GMT
For those that missed it: Scourge of the Broken Coast and Slaughter Fleet Raiders got merged into a single theme, allowing both character jacks that we had, as well as all living Cryx models/units. It kept Gang Fighter and Ambush. So the living themes did get merged. I am really surprised by that. My initial reaction is I don't like it. Not because of power level or how it affects me personally, but because satyxis almost completely outclass trollkin and ogrun. I don't own the slaughter fleet models (too expensive) but I didn't mind because I didn't like the infantry. It feels like it is really bad for the people who spent a lot of money on slaughter fleet models. I disagree. I used to feel a similar way, though I felt Satyxis didn't outclass anybody and just died to everything and everyone. They have high DEF, but low ARM and no Tough unlike the other living pirates, that's not my point though. I felt that both themes were fleshed out and had sufficient options to stand by themselves and, because of synergies, you would play either all Satyxis, or all "other pirates" anyway. But then I got to thinking that that's not really true. This means more diversity for both themes, because right now, they each very often take at least 1 unit in duplicates, but now it will be much easier to mix and match. I like my Skarre 3 with 3 units of trolls, but honestly, one of them always misses some support, by being too far from Gerlak, Jussika and/or Deceleration. Now with the merger, I can swap that one unit out for an Ambushing unit of Blood Witches and the list is most likely better for it. Other existing Slaughter Fleet lists might also benefit from plugging in Severa and 1-2 units of Gunslingers. I think you situation might also be one they are specifically trying to fix with this change. You have all the Satyxis models, so don't feel like you wanted to branch out into Slaughter Fleet, but now you can keep your Satyxis, and support them better by getting a unit of Dirge Seers, or maybe even a (min) unit of Smog Belchers to protect your fragile models on the approach. Need hitting power? Add some Boarding Party. There's just so many options and we kept all of the good theme benefits. The only "problem" I have with this change is that now I have no idea what to put into a list. |
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Post by tiberius on Jul 24, 2019 10:34:19 GMT
Satyxis raiders with gang fighting jacks has me pretty excited. Any 2" reach infantry will really enable that ability. Something slaughter fleet was missing. But you are right, at first I didn't want them combined because I will usually reach for satyxis over trolls most times. But there are times I want a tough road block vs a super fast glass cannon group. But as far as enabling the theme benefit of gang fighter, I think the satyxis raiders are going to be king, and vs my typical opponents who spam heavy warjacks and high armor multiwound models, I need more than some gang fighting infantry.
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Post by theghost on Jul 25, 2019 5:35:50 GMT
There was also a third change where infernal machines and black industry are combined.
Don't have the exact themelist here now but:
- All character jacks, wraith solos, (can gain hellslinger for free now), unit selection same as BI and IM had. Gain 3 brute thralls for free.
- Ambushing mcthralls, heavy jacks gain Carapace.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 25, 2019 6:10:05 GMT
There was also a third change where infernal machines and black industry are combined. Don't have the exact themelist here now but: - All character jacks, wraith solos, (can gain hellslinger for free now), unit selection same as BI and IM had. Gain 3 brute thralls for free. - Ambushing mcthralls, heavy jacks gain Carapace. I said that 4 posts up  Thanks for the nice summary. |
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Thanks for the nice summary.