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Post by auraco on Jul 18, 2019 12:00:49 GMT
If my theory on the single-benefit themes is right, then Legion should get something. After all, Storm Division lost AM on a limited set of models and gained Unyielding on almost all of them. What about Unyielding on all Iron Fangs? That would be amazing! But I'm afraid we can't have nice things. Tempering your expectations is the best way not to get hurt.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Jul 18, 2019 12:13:41 GMT
What about Unyielding on all Iron Fangs? That would be amazing! But I'm afraid we can't have nice things. Tempering your expectations is the best way not to get hurt.
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Post by auraco on Jul 18, 2019 12:18:47 GMT
It sure feels that way these days.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 18, 2019 12:20:28 GMT
So can we take kovnik Joe as free? I also didnt see sorscha 0 on the benefits that were posted here.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 12:28:52 GMT
Yes, you can. He falls under 'One other small or medium based solo'. Sorscha0 is allowed as she is a Winterguard model
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Post by novaspike on Jul 18, 2019 13:06:54 GMT
So I've been running WGK with B3 and this actually opens up my list building.
It sucks losing advance move, but it was only 4", butcher still keeps his best anti-shooting tech (sac pawn), and I actually don't feel compelled to take weapon crews.
Current (new) list looks like this: B3 - Ruin - Devastator - Adjunct S0 - Rager Andy - Viktor Kovnik Joe Tinker Arty Kapt Min Winterguard w/3 rockets.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 18, 2019 14:23:16 GMT
Can we just all agree that we will all assume that every theme gets worse or, at best, stay the same. It will prevent many tears and we know it will be true Yay to not having to buy AKs! LOL. Wait till you seem the themes for Cruciable Guard and Infernals. You won't think those have gotten worse.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 18, 2019 14:32:28 GMT
Haha, you made the classic blunder of expecting them to not nerf existing stuff for no apparent reason. I could clearly see them dropping the free upkeep turn one in wolves of winter like they did in secret masters, something that really affect Vlad2 since he has a lot of upkeep to set up turn one. They could also be changing the way the advance move work in armored corps, seeing what they've done with other theme, and it could possibly end up being a nerf or something that makes the advance move less flexible. I'm also expecting them to not give legion of steel anything to replace the loss of advance move. Not that it really matters, legion of steel already need something to help it not be bottom tier. Haha, you've certainly got me there! With the upkeeps on Wolves: I think Secret Masters lost that benefit because PP seem to be dropping the second benefit from themes that grant Shield Guard and Sacrificial Pawn. They clearly think ranged defense options are strong. I'd be more concerned about losing Apparition; it's a SPD boost on a theme that already has mass AD, so they might look at it as a problem. Oracles lost that benefit, but kept the upkeeps one. If my theory on the single-benefit themes is right, then Legion should get something. After all, Storm Division lost AM on a limited set of models and gained Unyielding on almost all of them. But you're correct, I'm making assumptions left, right and centre here Losing apparition in Wolves would largely cause me to quit for a while. When you can not cast spells on the Doomies having that allows them NOT to get alpha'ed. With it they will get alpha'ed - and they melt to stuff with victim defensive stats. If that were to happen you have to ask yourself whether just to play IFK - because you can speed them up, directly buff their defense (strak 2) and have casters taht allow them to hit harder than doomies (Irusks; Kozlov, b1). But yes....I expect PP to do this because Khador is CRUSHED the american meta - dominating final tables for a year ;-)
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 18, 2019 14:53:44 GMT
Man talking about going down a hole, receiving nerfs to WoW and AC would be very hard to stomach. They are both very good themes, but they are not dominating the meta by any means.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 15:30:13 GMT
Man talking about going down a hole, receiving nerfs to WoW and AC would be very hard to stomach. They are both very good themes, but they are not dominating the meta by any means. I think we'll be fine. We've seen two themes; WGK is still really solid, and Jaws has been brought up to a useful level. We know AC is keeping the Advanced Move benefit, so assuming the requisition options stay the same I think it's still top of the pile. The strength of Wolves is in the models it takes more than the theme benefits. Apparition is great, but the theme wouldn't be trash without it. One thing I think we might be in for, though; if they're aiming to get requisitions in the 16-18 region then we won't be able to take the Ternions as free options, as that would put us at 21. On the other hand, they've already said they'll be keeping the Initiates of the Wall as a free option in Faithful Masses so who knows? Legion is the interesting one for me. It's never been through CID, unlike AC and Wolves. PP staff have said they focused more on the ones that hadn't had CIDs, and we know it's losing at least one of its benefits. It's the one with greatest potential for change, if only because it's starting so low on the scale! Honestly? I'm expecting us to come out ahead at the end of all of this. WGK was a soft nerf, Jaws a solid buff, AC and Wolves will probably be neutral. You can't meaningfully nerf Legion because no-one plays it anyway.
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Post by steeltitan on Jul 18, 2019 15:33:35 GMT
Can we just all agree that we will all assume that every theme gets worse or, at best, stay the same. It will prevent many tears and we know it will be true Yay to not having to buy AKs! LOL. Wait till you seem the themes for Cruciable Guard and Infernals. You won't think those have gotten worse. Firetruck CG...Wait?! What?! Oops... Uhh at least they will be losing their +1 to go first and their extended deployment...so thats nice. With a bit of luck they will lose Mosby in a theme too... ...Im a nice guy
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 18, 2019 18:09:54 GMT
LOL. Wait till you seem the themes for Cruciable Guard and Infernals. You won't think those have gotten worse. Firetruck CG...Wait?! What?! Oops... Uhh at least they will be losing their +1 to go first and their extended deployment...so thats nice. With a bit of luck they will lose Mosby in a theme too... ...Im a nice guy Mosby is only in one theme atm. Removing him from Magnus Opus would make him the only model in the game that is not allowed in any theme force.
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Post by jdeckert on Jul 18, 2019 19:11:57 GMT
Pretty much what I expected. Kind of a bummer because it's been my most played list of Mk3 as a jack heavy Butcher3 list, which takes a huge hit. But I think it's a reasonable direction for the theme. Would have been nice to pick up a small benefit, but eh.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 18, 2019 20:17:00 GMT
The strength of Wolves is in the models it takes more than the theme benefits. Apparition is great, but the theme wouldn't be trash without it. Disagree, without Apparition may as well be playing Pikes: they're more accurate and actually take buffs. Having to pic anyone unit be Baseline Threat 13 is bonkers. But depending on how LegOS turns out, it may actually end up being a better melee centric Army than Wolves. We will have to wait and see how things shake up.
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Post by michael on Jul 18, 2019 20:54:13 GMT
I AM DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED WITH THIS THREAD. I WAS LURED IN WITH THE PROMISE OF A FRANK DISCUSSION ABOUT SPOLERS, AND THERE IS NONE.
When I’m on the ocean in my sloop and the capstan gets tangled in the yardarm after a squall, and my ship is tipping leeward, a spoler is required to free the jib. AND DESPITE THIS BASIC FACT, THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE SENTENCE ABOUT SPOLERS THIS FAR.
How is one supposed to win the regatta in this condition? How, sir? HOW.
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