|
Post by jonnyboy on Jul 17, 2019 20:12:19 GMT
So at 9/15, do we see them bringing value over WGI or WGRC? As they stand, without additional changes.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Jul 17, 2019 20:54:13 GMT
No, not unless you have a burning need for flamethrowers. WGI are better into a wider range of targets thanks to rockets and CRA, and they have the excellent support of Joe. If you need P10 shots, the Rifles are much better thanks to +4 range.
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Jul 17, 2019 21:52:38 GMT
Surprised folk don't like the no heal more. That's always their biggest draw for me. Cheers, Dave No Heal AoEs don't drift like normal, and AKs have little to no Accuracy buffs like the rest of the WG has. Which is why I would love for them to gain the WG identifier, that way Joe could buff them for a sweet Brutal Charge, or well placed gas clouds.
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 17, 2019 23:08:50 GMT
Guys, it's not like our casters can't buff the Assault Commandos. Arguably, Vlad 1 is our best WGK caster and he buffs everything. WG are 5/5 offensively, 12/13 defensively, and POW 8 melee. Yes, CRA is a thing. So are Rockets. The sprays on WGI are fun, but still are a once per game thing.
The AKs are 6/6 and 12/14 with at least the option to shield wall (probably useless). Gun blade is +1 POW, and a somewhat respectable POW 11 on the charge and only 1 off from Joe's bear strength only you get Assault. And since you have Assault, you get decent attack volume with, say, a Vlad 1 (my go to guy in WG). SP8 (vs 6) on a Gunfighter stick with a POW 12 continuous effect quite good. The no-heal gas effect is really good (once again, especially if your go-to caster is Vlad 1).
If nothing changes but for making the flamethrowers free for 1 Req Point, I'll at least test (and have a bias for including) a min unit with 3 UAs just to diversify my tech.
If Joe can buff them, I'll look at taking a max unit.
If they get ambush, I'd seriously consider two min units with free flamers. That would be amazing. Guess we'll see what they get in a few hours.
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 17, 2019 23:34:15 GMT
They could cost 6/10 like winter dudes and still they would be worse.
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 18, 2019 1:01:11 GMT
They could cost 6/10 like winter dudes and still they would be worse. If you exclude the WG Officer attachment then I don’t think this is true. 5/5 vs 6/6. Gas effect and assault natively. POW 11 vs POW 8 on the charge. You’re going to point to Joe, which is legit, but Joe can buff one unit so the use case I’m talking about is at the margin are you better off adding a min unit of AKs for 9 points, a min unit of WGRC for 8, or a min unit of WGI for 6..or 10 with the officer. I’m arguing that you need to consider your entire army composition, not just the unit in a vacuum. If I were only going to take ONE unit, would it be a WG or AK? WG. No doubt. But in the new themes we can fit 3 min units with 9 WAs and still stuff in 5 jacks.
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 18, 2019 1:14:37 GMT
From the podcast: Torch and Beast 09 All Winterguard solos, WG units, Assault Kommandos, Widowmakers Malakov, Mechanics Any mercenary solo or unit, no character restriction, no ranking officers Special Rules: Sac Pawn, no replacement for advanced move Requisition points: weapon crew unit, command attachment, 2 artillary kaptains, 1 small or medium Khador solo No free weapon attachments. chickenslayer , what happened to free weapon attachments? What the hell happened to 3 free weapon attachments? No, really. This pisses me off. Other themes get 3 free WAs at 2 points each, and that was one of the things Hungerford spoiled. WGK was hardly rocking the meta, and this new incarnation eliminates one of the huge theme benefits without replacing it with anything, and then making the free options inferior to comparable themes. Yes, fine, you can get to 16 points by teching 2 WG Mortars and 2 Artillary Kaptains, but would it have been OP to allow the 3 free WAs? Seriously. I hate to pour on the salt, but it really feels like there’s something to “Khador can’t have nice things.” Really disappointing. Firetrucking shootload of spit.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Jul 18, 2019 2:30:51 GMT
Even if not 3 rocket as a requisition option, pretty sure 3 free flamers would have been a better incentive to play assault kommandoes than their point cost drop.
I would argue that Butcher3 was the top Winterguard Kommand caster, and this is a big nerf to his list. I guess next time I bring him out it's going to be in armored corps, which now seems like the best theme for him. It's a pitty I got Sorscha0 painted and now I don't even want to play the theme that allow her. I guess Malakov2 will be happy with her in infernal...
I don't even know what to think, RIP Winterguard Kommand, I had a good run with Butcher3 and you.
F to pay respect
|
|
|
Post by chickenslayer on Jul 18, 2019 3:24:51 GMT
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Jul 18, 2019 5:02:59 GMT
Well, AKs are still crap.
But more power to those that love splashing around in the yank tank!
|
|
|
Post by steeltitan on Jul 18, 2019 7:08:13 GMT
Can we just all agree that we will all assume that every theme gets worse or, at best, stay the same. It will prevent many tears and we know it will be true Yay to not having to buy AKs!
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Jul 18, 2019 7:16:14 GMT
Oh, awesome! Now I don't need to worry about painting my AKs. Well, it's not that bad. I was hoping for a replacement benefit but c'est la vie. Rockets haven't got any less powerful, nor has the Fun Carriage, and we gain Beast-09. And they got rid of that daft character restriction, and kept the powerful benefit. Running WGK as a jack list is far less likely now, though.
|
|
|
Post by P'tit Nico on Jul 18, 2019 7:21:31 GMT
Yeah, free Artillery Kapitans! What are they good for again?
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Jul 18, 2019 8:04:25 GMT
Yeah, free Artillery Kapitans! What are they good for again? Being cheap solos that you can contest with, which is pretty okay in a theme with two good solos that are not exactly "throwaway". Then again we can not take character merc solos, so stuff like Saxon might take that role. Edit: What do people think about lists with Aks, Torch and a Menite Archon? Sounds hilarious, but probably not good (Menite Archon got fuel the flames most likely.)
|
|
|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jul 18, 2019 8:08:55 GMT
Surprised folk don't like the no heal more. That's always their biggest draw for me. Cheers, Dave No Heal AoEs don't drift like normal, and AKs have little to no Accuracy buffs like the rest of the WG has. Which is why I would love for them to gain the WG identifier, that way Joe could buff them for a sweet Brutal Charge, or well placed gas clouds. I'm glad no heal AoEs don't drift to be honest, it'd kill your clock so badly. You'd also risk scattering them onto your own stuff or into places you wanted models to stand. Off the top my head, the only accuracy buff WG have access to that AK don't is Joe. That puts WG at MAT/RAT7 vs AK native 6/6. So they are 1 point more accurate if you pay for a 4pt solo to use his buff on them. Play Strakhov1 and AKs are 7/7 with no input from anyone. Cheers, Dave
|
|