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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 8, 2019 6:18:09 GMT
Unyielding seems no more than a joke, I think, although it is actual benefit rather than teasing advance move 'benefit'. Else Stormguard Infantry are one of the famous unit in our arsenal, not the untouchable. Why we are need to consider petty vs melee bonus(that is also meaningless against charge, as you know the performance of Shield Wall units) when they are slaughtered by ranged attack in the first place? I don't get it. That's why I still keep vanilla. Perhaps it have some uses with Storm Lances, but if they are ever start the activation with engaged, they are already done for because they lost their offensive capability without charge(although all units are lose that in the same situation). Jamming is better than nothing and so do better durability, but they are too expensive to be just a cannon fodder. If you expected Unyielding to single handedly make the Storm Knight infantry unkillable, I don't know what to tell you. On the other hand, there are armour buffs in faction as well as a mini-feat on the unit available, and an additional +2 ARM is all that it takes to bring that to ARM 20 or higher, and that's where even some charges start to bounce off. Aside from that, Unyielding might not save you against charges, but I can personally attest that it saves lives in a prolonged melee, or maybe when you run to engage. PS: note that we also don't know any of the buffs that were handed out to the models. Complaining without having all the info seems a bit futile.
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Dev talk
Jul 8, 2019 8:54:17 GMT
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 8, 2019 8:54:17 GMT
Unyielding seems no more than a joke, I think, although it is actual benefit rather than teasing advance move 'benefit'. Else Stormguard Infantry are one of the famous unit in our arsenal, not the untouchable. Why we are need to consider petty vs melee bonus(that is also meaningless against charge, as you know the performance of Shield Wall units) when they are slaughtered by ranged attack in the first place? I don't get it. That's why I still keep vanilla. Perhaps it have some uses with Storm Lances, but if they are ever start the activation with engaged, they are already done for because they lost their offensive capability without charge(although all units are lose that in the same situation). Jamming is better than nothing and so do better durability, but they are too expensive to be just a cannon fodder. If you expected Unyielding to single handedly make the Storm Knight infantry unkillable, I don't know what to tell you. On the other hand, there are armour buffs in faction as well as a mini-feat on the unit available, and an additional +2 ARM is all that it takes to bring that to ARM 20 or higher, and that's where even some charges start to bounce off. Aside from that, Unyielding might not save you against charges, but I can personally attest that it saves lives in a prolonged melee, or maybe when you run to engage. PS: note that we also don't know any of the buffs that were handed out to the models. Complaining without having all the info seems a bit futile. No one expects an invincible army, if they are on the competitive game. The problem is it is unlikely that they are ever enter the prolonged melee and stall each others because of their fragility - usually they are dying out even before that without a buff in the first place, and there are the better replacements for them as well. Nothing is invincible, but draw enough fire in order to be perished and slaughtered effortlessly are totally diffrent. And, although we don't know what's happen, but we do know what was happened. We do know it very well.
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Post by netdragon on Jul 8, 2019 13:56:54 GMT
IDK, Unyielding + AS + minifeat + Stryker 1 feat...
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 12, 2019 17:39:42 GMT
So apparently jack marshals will now gain the ability to have their jacks shake kd, stationary ect.
Marshaled jacks in SotT look more attractive now.
However, Jaws and destruction initiative went from 4 and 5 freebies respectively to 3 each. I assume the same will happen to SotT.
Any thoughts this?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 12, 2019 17:48:11 GMT
So apparently jack marshals will now gain the ability to have their jacks shake kd, stationary ect. Marshaled jacks in SotT look more attractive now. However, Jaws and destruction initiative went from 4 and 5 freebies respectively to 3 each. I assume the same will happen to SotT. Any thoughts this? The problem with Sons is that Gun Mages are made of tissue paper, and def 14 is not considered high def anymore. Having extra warjacks might be nice, but unless cygnar heavies get cheaper its still wint be a great proposition. And the fact Stormwall only dropped to 36 doesn't fill me with hope for the rest of our stable
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 12, 2019 18:02:48 GMT
So apparently jack marshals will now gain the ability to have their jacks shake kd, stationary ect. Marshaled jacks in SotT look more attractive now. However, Jaws and destruction initiative went from 4 and 5 freebies respectively to 3 each. I assume the same will happen to SotT. Any thoughts this? The problem with Sons is that Gun Mages are made of tissue paper, and def 14 is not considered high def anymore. Having extra warjacks might be nice, but unless cygnar heavies get cheaper its still wint be a great proposition. And the fact Stormwall only dropped to 36 doesn't fill me with hope for the rest of our stable If they let you take the Blockhouse in other themes that could help a lot (girded and trenches).
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Post by mydnight on Jul 13, 2019 6:59:09 GMT
The problem with Sons is that Gun Mages are made of tissue paper, and def 14 is not considered high def anymore. Having extra warjacks might be nice, but unless cygnar heavies get cheaper its still wint be a great proposition. And the fact Stormwall only dropped to 36 doesn't fill me with hope for the rest of our stable Without major buffs, Sons will be the weakest theme, since its main draw was low threshold for free points. With the eyeless sight objective and the ability to splash into gravediggers Sons is looking quite unattractive.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 13, 2019 8:35:15 GMT
So apparently jack marshals will now gain the ability to have their jacks shake kd, stationary ect. Marshaled jacks in SotT look more attractive now. However, Jaws and destruction initiative went from 4 and 5 freebies respectively to 3 each. I assume the same will happen to SotT. Any thoughts this? That's a good news to a stillborn component - I mean, 'Jack Marshal - but I doubt that it can be a benefit for SotT. If we are use a 'Jack Marshal I will go vanilla, Heavy Metal(where you can take poor Archduke Runewood AND Captain Strangewayes) and Storm Division(you can take both Strangewayes and Stormclad). Also, SotT has the most expensive 'Jack Marshal among them, making them even unappeal over the others. For now 'Jack Marshal is only effective for the melee jacks that is able to access for at least 1 focus point or more, so I don't think that Arcane Tempest Officer will be a good candidate either. Runewood would be a good source for the 'Jack Marshal though. So apparently jack marshals will now gain the ability to have their jacks shake kd, stationary ect. Marshaled jacks in SotT look more attractive now. However, Jaws and destruction initiative went from 4 and 5 freebies respectively to 3 each. I assume the same will happen to SotT. Any thoughts this? The problem with Sons is that Gun Mages are made of tissue paper, and def 14 is not considered high def anymore. Having extra warjacks might be nice, but unless cygnar heavies get cheaper its still wint be a great proposition. And the fact Stormwall only dropped to 36 doesn't fill me with hope for the rest of our stable Actually, DEF 14 makes them very survivable over various normal(Trenchers without Dig In and the other faction's units) to fragile(basic long gunners and storm knights) units. The problem is, they are NOT the line infantry that is cheap enough than the others. They are more likely to survive, but they are expensive, have low in number, and doesn't have much punching power to be earn their points back.... They are only the specialists but they requires too much premium despite they can't do much things. And, since we can field jacks in every single list, I doubt that we need to play SotT. Even in the era of theme force, SotT is just lost much things but gains almost nothing compared by vanilla forces. It does nothing without jack, and its designated units are can't do much, then why you are bothered to use that when you can pick Heavy Metal instead? Although I still, still doubt the benefit of theme force and vanilla is the best bet, but even compared with the themes I see no benefit on SotT when you can pick the other theme.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 13, 2019 14:13:26 GMT
The problem with Sons is that Gun Mages are made of tissue paper, and def 14 is not considered high def anymore. Having extra warjacks might be nice, but unless cygnar heavies get cheaper its still wint be a great proposition. And the fact Stormwall only dropped to 36 doesn't fill me with hope for the rest of our stable Without major buffs, Sons will be the weakest theme, since its main draw was low threshold for free points. With the eyeless sight objective and the ability to splash into gravediggers Sons is looking quite unattractive. I actually disagree. Sons will be one of the better themes in which to play warjacks. Taking Arcane Tempest solos and the Black 13th, combined with the lack of support model restriction and availability of mercs will make it a legitimate choice.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 13, 2019 16:02:31 GMT
The Arcane Tempest Officer might be the most expensive jack marshal in the faction but he has A: a good drive that lets the shoot menite jacks gives them sniper or thunderbolt and lets them benefit from falk's damage buff, all the while making our unit better. The interaction with Falk and Snipe on jacks that want it makes it worth it imo. A marshaled cyclone has a threat of 16" and shoots at rat 8, POW 16 under take aim eeven before you factor in Empower from strangeways, just as an example. Also he can be taken for free anyway. Also i'd argue that heavy metal has better juniors than jack marshals. Repo is cute but not amazing. I don't see any reason to put a jack on Runewood or even strangeways if you can just put it on jakes, caine, the trencher lieutenant or a junior instead.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 13, 2019 16:11:56 GMT
The Arcane Tempest Officer might be the most expensive jack marshal in the faction but he has A: a good drive that lets the shoot menite jacks gives them sniper or thunderbolt and lets them benefit from falk's damage buff, all the while making our unit better. The interaction with Falk and Snipe on jacks that want it makes it worth it imo. A marshaled cyclone has a threat of 16" and shoots at rat 8, POW 16 under take aim eeven before you factor in Empower from strangeways, just as an example. Also he can be taken for free anyway. Also i'd argue that heavy metal has better juniors than jack marshals. Repo is cute but not amazing. I don't see any reason to put a jack on Runewood or even strangeways if you can just put it on jakes, caine, the trencher lieutenant or a junior instead. The problem is that Menoth jack is a Judicator that carpet bombs and sprays all your Gun Mages to death first
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Dev talk
Jul 13, 2019 19:39:38 GMT
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 13, 2019 19:39:38 GMT
The Arcane Tempest Officer might be the most expensive jack marshal in the faction but he has A: a good drive that lets the shoot menite jacks gives them sniper or thunderbolt and lets them benefit from falk's damage buff, all the while making our unit better. The interaction with Falk and Snipe on jacks that want it makes it worth it imo. A marshaled cyclone has a threat of 16" and shoots at rat 8, POW 16 under take aim eeven before you factor in Empower from strangeways, just as an example. Also he can be taken for free anyway. Also i'd argue that heavy metal has better juniors than jack marshals. Repo is cute but not amazing. I don't see any reason to put a jack on Runewood or even strangeways if you can just put it on jakes, caine, the trencher lieutenant or a junior instead. The problem is that Menoth jack is a Judicator that carpet bombs and sprays all your Gun Mages to death first And only Arcane Tempest Rifleman can do anything against it.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Dev talk
Jul 15, 2019 14:52:55 GMT
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Post by snoozer on Jul 15, 2019 14:52:55 GMT
I do not get the judicator argument. You can and should spread out so that 2 x 2 3" aoes should not remove more that 1 model per blast, if they hit at all. Then this will also not allow it to spary more than 1 dude. If all that the enemy colossal does is trying to get 2 by spray (at rat 5+2 he either has a 50/50 or boosts). Maybe another 2 and then 2 from secondary blast if he is absurdly lucky - then I am very cheerful because that was a very wasteful activation for a piece that needs to do work. All while the cyclone outhreats him and the UA does not need to be close to where he will hit. Playing siege 1 with foxhole helps of course.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 15, 2019 16:30:24 GMT
The problem is they costs 11pt per each unit, they comes with 6 troopers, and they can't do anything other than kill some infantries. The cost of the Officer is not included on that too.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Jul 16, 2019 6:29:05 GMT
I beg to differ. They kill infantry which is actually good. They threat 20", meaning they can shoot that infantry twice unless they get shredded. They have nice Def and high rat. They have crit knockdown and that push ability either forces decisions on your opponent or scores you zones and opens up assassination angles. With gunfighter they can eventually deal some good damage. So you don't get 6 winterguard for those 11 points. But your point does stay valid: they are not cheap, they die easily against blasts and they are not the greatest armour cracking unit. To me they are still good tough! It depends on what you need in your list
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