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Post by michael on Jul 3, 2019 23:27:32 GMT
I think you're going to run into problem number 1 with Hark; you've got the hitting power of a baked potato. If you're talking two Destroyers and three Kodiaks, that's a total of 67 points of jacks that have a 16% chance to kill a horror assuming full focus and a charge. And that's a horror, the squishiest things going. Imagine coming up against one of your dreaded Railless! I am currently thinking Black Ivan (based upon hope of point drop), Behemoth, Destroyer and then a Kodiak. Put something on S0. That gives me 4 likely fully boosted (cause of Ivan's bond) Shots to force them to close and 2 BC to threaten 12. Bring Yuri and Friends for when the board state encouarages using treewalker for effect. I may try to convince someone to play it tonight. Will let you know how the beared one does ;-) You really shouldn’t count your Harkevich before they hatch. We have no idea whether he or any of the jacks will change.
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 23:48:12 GMT
If they don't change Black Ivan his inclusion into the theme is going to have practically no impact, rat 5 isn't worth 1 rat on a destroyer.
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Post by cplmustard on Jul 4, 2019 0:15:42 GMT
If they don't change Black Ivan his inclusion into the theme is going to have practically no impact, rat 5 isn't worth 1 rat on a destroyer. Even at 16 pts he's not a great buy except with harkevich's bond, I would love for him to get some of his uniqueness back from Mk2, give him def 12!
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 4, 2019 0:19:57 GMT
The forest thing is not game changing good. It’s...”neat”. The placement of the forest is “completely within” 18” of our table edge. So, jacks sitting *outside* the forest on our side of the board are, what, 13”-14” upwind? If we go *first*, that means you didn’t (or barely) ran your jack the full distance to get to the edge of the forest. And then what? Turn 2 you’re going to sacrifice board position to keep your jacks behind the forest? That does not seem like a game winning strategy.
Now, it does feel like a great way to create a pocket behind which to keep your caster safe.
I’m more interested in what this means for Butcher 3 and Karchev, who can use out of activation movement for their jacks to get into the forest for the pathfinder-charge. This includes Bucher 3. In a scenario like Bunker, you could park him behind the forest, and use Energizer and boundless charge to get him where he needs to be. That seems legit.
Pathfinder for all your jacks in a jack heavy Butcher, Vlad 1, or Karchev Jaws theme seems pretty legit. Not game changing, but legit. The fact that I’m not sacrificing free solos to bring troops, especially with Butcher 3 and Vlad 1, is super legit. Free Eliminators is, well, super awesome.
I normally reach for Vlad 1 with WGK. But Jaws now needs to be considered. Free double eliminators with a safe little forest bunker for Vlad 1 feels good. I need to test (a free) Yuri and 6 point Kossites, especially with Vlad 1 who fixes everything.
Dropping assault kommandos to 9/15 in WGK is really interesting. In the Dev Chat, they talked about Requisition Points being able to be used for 3 Weapon Attachments in some themes. My money says that in WGK you will be able to use your a requisition point to get 3 Rockets or 3 Flame Throwers. They said that themes would target 16-20 points in free models with 18 being not so uncommon. Given the inevitable loss of Advance Move from WGK, I’d be surprised if they didn’t allow the free attachment option. Reaching for Vlad 1 with a (min) unit of Rifles, WGI, and Assault Kommandos all with max (free) attachments seems like a nice start to a build.
Somebody rev up the hype train.
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Post by lorddragonmaster on Jul 4, 2019 3:27:38 GMT
The forest thing is not game changing good. It’s...”neat”. The placement of the forest is “completely within” 18” of our table edge. So, jacks sitting *outside* the forest on our side of the board are, what, 13”-14” upwind? If we go *first*, that means you didn’t (or barely) ran your jack the full distance to get to the edge of the forest. And then what? Turn 2 you’re going to sacrifice board position to keep your jacks behind the forest? That does not seem like a game winning strategy. Now, it does feel like a great way to create a pocket behind which to keep your caster safe. I’m more interested in what this means for Butcher 3 and Karchev, who can use out of activation movement for their jacks to get into the forest for the pathfinder-charge. This includes Bucher 3. In a scenario like Bunker, you could park him behind the forest, and use Energizer and boundless charge to get him where he needs to be. That seems legit. Pathfinder for all your jacks in a jack heavy Butcher, Vlad 1, or Karchev Jaws theme seems pretty legit. Not game changing, but legit. The fact that I’m not sacrificing free solos to bring troops, especially with Butcher 3 and Vlad 1, is super legit. Free Eliminators is, well, super awesome. I normally reach for Vlad 1 with WGK. But Jaws now needs to be considered. Free double eliminators with a safe little forest bunker for Vlad 1 feels good. I need to test (a free) Yuri and 6 point Kossites, especially with Vlad 1 who fixes everything. Dropping assault kommandos to 9/15 in WGK is really interesting. In the Dev Chat, they talked about Requisition Points being able to be used for 3 Weapon Attachments in some themes. My money says that in WGK you will be able to use your a requisition point to get 3 Rockets or 3 Flame Throwers. They said that themes would target 16-20 points in free models with 18 being not so uncommon. Given the inevitable loss of Advance Move from WGK, I’d be surprised if they didn’t allow the free attachment option. Reaching for Vlad 1 with a (min) unit of Rifles, WGI, and Assault Kommandos all with max (free) attachments seems like a nice start to a build. Somebody rev up the hype train. 16-20 free point? Isn’t the most you get in the new jaws 14-15?
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 4, 2019 3:40:37 GMT
You can get 16 points in jaws with 2 units of eliminators and Yuri.
They did imply that you’d need to tech to hit the high end of the points scheme, and might fine you’d rather just take stuff you want but end up at lower point totals. Double eliminators plus Yuri seems like a good option, though, especially if you’re going to reach for a unit of Kossites.
This seems worth a try. Butcher 3 has always been the scenario master, and this seem legit. 6 strong jacks. 4 solos. 3 units, one ambushing. I like Malakov with the new scenarios. The Kossites at 6 points maybe just cheap enough considering those new scenarios to be interesting.
Khador - Butcher 3 Jaws - Oblivion
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Marauder - PC: 11 - Marauder - PC: 11
Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff - PC: 4 - Destroyer - PC: 14 Kovnik Andrei Malakov - PC: 4 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 Yuri the Axe - PC: 0
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5/0 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5/0 Kossite Woodsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 4, 2019 4:48:08 GMT
Can we play with ALL the Ambush? Double min Kossites Press Gangers Hutchuk
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 4, 2019 6:47:07 GMT
Can we play with ALL the Ambush? Double min Kossites Press Gangers Hutchuk Why min units of Kossites if the whole plan is to lean heavily into ambush? In for a penny in for a pound, right?
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Post by steeltitan on Jul 4, 2019 7:02:01 GMT
@ Jaws changes:
I think the changes are...cute? The benefit is situational. Since using Sorscha0, I am much less worried about terrain issues because you can always give two jacks pathfinder when you really need it.
Playing against CG a lot, taking away Ambush was very good for me. However, I understand that this is even more situational to many others.
If nothing else changes, I am much more excited to play Jack-heavy WoW. Having good ranged options, something that Khador Jacks just don't provide, in Tankers adds much more to a Jack heavy army IMO. The fact that you also have access to an ARM debuff is also great and makes Marauders even better...also Kodiaks aren't 'just' utility pieces but can actually outdamage Juggers (I didn't do the math but 2x POW 18 seems better than 1x POW 19 and a POW 15, especially with the other options a Kodiak has).
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 4, 2019 7:36:40 GMT
@ Jaws changes: I think the changes are...cute? The benefit is situational. Since using Sorscha0, I am much less worried about terrain issues because you can always give two jacks pathfinder when you really need it. Playing against CG a lot, taking away Ambush was very good for me. However, I understand that this is even more situational to many others. If nothing else changes, I am much more excited to play Jack-heavy WoW. Having good ranged options, something that Khador Jacks just don't provide, in Tankers adds much more to a Jack heavy army IMO. The fact that you also have access to an ARM debuff is also great and makes Marauders even better...also Kodiaks aren't 'just' utility pieces but can actually outdamage Juggers (I didn't do the math but 2x POW 18 seems better than 1x POW 19 and a POW 15, especially with the other options a Kodiak has). I think you've conflated two themes here: Wolves of Winter doesn't have Tankers, that's Armoured Corps. But I'm also excited for Wolves jack lists Your maths is good, but it's worth bearing in mind that a Juggernaut with the same buffs does even more damage; I'm generally of the opinion that it's better to buff a strength than try to bring a weakness up to par.
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Post by steeltitan on Jul 4, 2019 9:21:16 GMT
Darn, I dont know where my brain was when i wrote that...
Still, i think the models you have access to in AK and WoW are more exciting than the ones in Jaws and the theme benefit.
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Post by Mr.Human on Jul 4, 2019 11:27:09 GMT
The changes are solid, but kinda doesn't change much in my Karchev lists. What it does is gives him some much needed scenario buff with Pathfinding. It also gives me even less reason to ever want to play a Kodiak with him instead of say a Deva or just a simple Jugg.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 4, 2019 23:50:13 GMT
New Spoiler Alert: Shield Guard affects sprays. (This conclusion drawn from the wording of the Convergence theme force benefit which includes new wording for Shield Guard).
The Rager and Beast 09 just got a bit better.
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Post by michael on Jul 5, 2019 2:23:02 GMT
This just in: Rager still sucks, unless something changes. Our only hope is that Winter Guard Kommand’s Sacrifical Pawn benefit remains. Details at 11.
...in August.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 5, 2019 5:54:13 GMT
I am currently thinking Black Ivan (based upon hope of point drop), Behemoth, Destroyer and then a Kodiak. Put something on S0. That gives me 4 likely fully boosted (cause of Ivan's bond) Shots to force them to close and 2 BC to threaten 12. Bring Yuri and Friends for when the board state encouarages using treewalker for effect. I may try to convince someone to play it tonight. Will let you know how the beared one does ;-) You really shouldn’t count your Harkevich before they hatch. We have no idea whether he or any of the jacks will change. one of my most wtf dissonance moments is when people refer to ps16 as pillow fisted but want to try hard to make pow 14 rat 4 shooting work.
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