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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 3, 2019 20:49:41 GMT
Kayazy free???
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 3, 2019 21:03:21 GMT
I doubt you'll see a Kayazy free Jaws army after this update.
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Post by cplmustard on Jul 3, 2019 21:24:33 GMT
Luke-warm take: If Kozlov is in this theme and you don't badly need steady he effectively gets an extra focus from playing this theme
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 21:25:35 GMT
Oh - observation on the increased value of a Destroyer (or behemoth)
You know what Hark is going to like? A forest he can park a jack (or three) behind and have it move up, shoot, and then pathfinder repo back. You can also add in the Kodiak smoke wall trick as well to set a NICE line of Jacks. I still don't think much value from broadside (sad face) but there is something here - along with the opportunity to put S0 in the list.
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Post by michael on Jul 3, 2019 21:48:32 GMT
Oh - observation on the increased value of a Destroyer (or behemoth) You know what Hark is going to like? A forest he can park a jack (or three) behind and have it move up, shoot, and then pathfinder repo back. You can also add in the Kodiak smoke wall trick as well to set a NICE line of Jacks. I still don't think much value from broadside (sad face) but there is something here - along with the opportunity to put S0 in the list. What does this fundamentally change about Harkevich’s game plan in Jaws? I don’t see any meaningful changes, unless there are unrevealed changes to Harkevich himself. He still needs Mobility to have any meaningful threat range. Broadside is still Broadsides, in a faction of RAT 4 expensive shooting jacks. Something something whatever.
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 21:58:23 GMT
Oh - observation on the increased value of a Destroyer (or behemoth) You know what Hark is going to like? A forest he can park a jack (or three) behind and have it move up, shoot, and then pathfinder repo back. You can also add in the Kodiak smoke wall trick as well to set a NICE line of Jacks. I still don't think much value from broadside (sad face) but there is something here - along with the opportunity to put S0 in the list. I don't see this changing much for Harkevich, I could see Malakov2 just taking his place, Escort with pathfinder and free upkeep from an adjunct is just way better than mobility with the pathfinder in this theme, add in open fire and you get a similar plan with a better feat and better kit that does stuff on turn other than the feat turn.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 3, 2019 21:58:55 GMT
The BEST bet for use of broadsides (which is not particularly great) is hark in wolves with greylords debuffing defense.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 22:05:17 GMT
Oh - observation on the increased value of a Destroyer (or behemoth) You know what Hark is going to like? A forest he can park a jack (or three) behind and have it move up, shoot, and then pathfinder repo back. You can also add in the Kodiak smoke wall trick as well to set a NICE line of Jacks. I still don't think much value from broadside (sad face) but there is something here - along with the opportunity to put S0 in the list. What does this fundamentally change about Harkevich’s game plan in Jaws? I don’t see any meaningful changes, unless there are unrevealed changes to Harkevich himself. He still needs Mobility to have any meaningful threat range. Broadside is still Broadsides, in a faction of RAT 4 expensive shooting jacks. Something something whatever. I think you are underestimating the ability to use a forest that is at least 5 inches wide with repo3 when you have pathfinder. I think it is safe to say that BlackIvan is getting a point reduction if not other buffs. I think it is almost guaranteed that you are going to be able to create for great big line of forests in the center of a ton of maps....or a forest+objective. VERY few things in the game see through forests (as opposed to a LOT of things that see through clouds). The problem with the kodiak cloud wall was that it was Kodiaks - and it was largely prior to S0. It was Hark who died to a stiff breeze. The Trample-vent-repo trick was "cute" but it gave up a TON of board space. No longer. You can still use a Kodiak to do that - basically starting the piece trade THERE with a nice 9 inches (plus whatever your pie plate is connected to on Turn 1. Then, if they don't take the bait/it isn't efficient you run/charge and feat - ideally plopping Hark into the forest. Now ARM 23 stuff in their face. Next turn apply axe. I played a TON of Hark early on. The problem was ARM 20 into shooting just isn't that great. Forest stops that.
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Post by michael on Jul 3, 2019 22:07:38 GMT
If your jacks are > 3” into the forest for protection, they aren’t going to be charging out next turn. Advance and shoot maybe, but...so...?
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 22:11:43 GMT
Oh - observation on the increased value of a Destroyer (or behemoth) You know what Hark is going to like? A forest he can park a jack (or three) behind and have it move up, shoot, and then pathfinder repo back. You can also add in the Kodiak smoke wall trick as well to set a NICE line of Jacks. I still don't think much value from broadside (sad face) but there is something here - along with the opportunity to put S0 in the list. I don't see this changing much for Harkevich, I could see Malakov2 just taking his place, Escort with pathfinder and free upkeep from an adjunct is just way better than mobility with the pathfinder in this theme, add in open fire and you get a similar plan with a better feat and better kit that does stuff on turn other than the feat turn. You can't leverage the forest. Think about Spread the net or Bunkers . You can essentially plop a forest down and put in a destroyer with pathfinder and be safe - except for things that come at you at a perfectly straight line the ENTIRE game. Heck - do you realize that the objective is at 15 in bunker. 25 Mm=<1 inch which means, based on Math that it is possible to deny your opponent, unless they can see through forests, the ability to even SEE your objective.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 22:12:51 GMT
If your jacks are > 3” into the forest for protection, they aren’t going to be charging out next turn. Advance and shoot maybe, but...so...? Not if it is a huge base. Forests do not block LOS to them. Howevever, they DO block LOS to Large bases - which is what you want to leverage the Repo since Colls can't do that.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 3, 2019 22:15:00 GMT
Luke-warm take: If Kozlov is in this theme and you don't badly need steady he effectively gets an extra focus from playing this theme That's pretty lukewarm! Of all the casters you could pick, you went for the one that is the most efficient at granting pathfinder to jacks... But on the Kozlov theme, I did try running him with Malakov1 a while back. Malakov's Redline jack would gain Pathfinder, and the feat and Redline SPD bonus still stack. A slightly better little module. Oh - observation on the increased value of a Destroyer (or behemoth) You know what Hark is going to like? A forest he can park a jack (or three) behind and have it move up, shoot, and then pathfinder repo back. You can also add in the Kodiak smoke wall trick as well to set a NICE line of Jacks. I still don't think much value from broadside (sad face) but there is something here - along with the opportunity to put S0 in the list. I think you're going to run into problem number 1 with Hark; you've got the hitting power of a baked potato. If you're talking two Destroyers and three Kodiaks, that's a total of 67 points of jacks that have a 16% chance to kill a horror assuming full focus and a charge. And that's a horror, the squishiest things going. Imagine coming up against one of your dreaded Railless! The Destroyers thing is kind of gimmicky, as they will still be RAT4 and can't aim if they need to move. I'm reasonably sure that if Hark jackspam gets anywhere it'll be using WoW to provide debuffs. Now that I stop and think about it I'm a little vexed that the warcasters don't get pathfinder too. That would be handy. But as it stands, the benefit is great for people who want jacks, but don't have a way (or perhaps just not a focus efficient way) of granting Pathfinder. Someone like Karchev would seem to like it. The various Butchers, too. I quite like the fact that Marshaled or Junior-controlled warjacks also get the benefit. I think the Old Witch might like it too. Apparition + Pathfinder can allow for some forest-related shenanigans, and having a permanent personal concealment source for a Pathfinder-Prowl caster and her Pathfinder-Prowl warjack seems handy. Vlad1 runs jacks well (he runs everything well), but Pathfinder is an issue for him... until now, maybe? So overall... Hmm. Not blowing my socks off, but I'm certainly not dismissing it out of hand. Oh, and the Irusk2 Kayazy Jaws does get more legit as well, but that's just because of the Requisition change.
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Post by michael on Jul 3, 2019 22:17:48 GMT
If your jacks are > 3” into the forest for protection, they aren’t going to be charging out next turn. Advance and shoot maybe, but...so...? Not if it is a huge base. Forests do not block LOS to them. Howevever, they DO block LOS to Large bases - which is what you want to leverage the Repo since Colls can't do that. I don’t think “hide in a forest and shoot with Khador jacks all game, unless they happen to have a huge base I can charge” is a good game plan.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2019 22:20:25 GMT
I think you're going to run into problem number 1 with Hark; you've got the hitting power of a baked potato. If you're talking two Destroyers and three Kodiaks, that's a total of 67 points of jacks that have a 16% chance to kill a horror assuming full focus and a charge. And that's a horror, the squishiest things going. Imagine coming up against one of your dreaded Railless! I am currently thinking Black Ivan (based upon hope of point drop), Behemoth, Destroyer and then a Kodiak. Put something on S0. That gives me 4 likely fully boosted (cause of Ivan's bond) Shots to force them to close and 2 BC to threaten 12. Bring Yuri and Friends for when the board state encouarages using treewalker for effect. I may try to convince someone to play it tonight. Will let you know how the beared one does ;-)
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 3, 2019 23:22:00 GMT
Huh, Free Eliminators is good, like game changing good.
My Kayazy force seems way more viable now!
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