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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 28, 2019 15:12:28 GMT
Butcher 3 is probably my favorite caster, and before AC and WoW he was leading my list pair. Now that we have AC and WoW im struggling to find a list i like for him, let alone room in my pairing.
Has anyone been playing him recently, especially with Sorscha0? He's still a great caster, but between WGK and JAWs im stuck.
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Post by jdeckert on Jun 28, 2019 17:21:53 GMT
I've always liked him in jack-heavy WGK, and I do even more now with Sorscha0. I think it's a pretty good pair for a wolves of winter list. With jacks rumored to lose advance move in that theme that could change  |
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932 
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Post by Ganso on Jun 28, 2019 19:01:38 GMT
I'm gonna build my Tharn hunter list in Wolves with all the Kayazy once the Remix is released  Right now he's basically my Huge Base hunter. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jun 29, 2019 2:59:30 GMT
I'm gonna build my Tharn hunter list in Wolves with all the Kayazy once the Remix is released Right now he's basically my Huge Base hunter. Huh? Huge bases are the only kind of bases Butcher doesn’t like...no impending doom. |
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 29, 2019 11:52:36 GMT
I'm gonna build my Tharn hunter list in Wolves with all the Kayazy once the Remix is released Right now he's basically my Huge Base hunter. Huh? Huge bases are the only kind of bases Butcher doesn’t like...no impending doom. is there anything Butcher3 can't one round? |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 29, 2019 13:30:07 GMT
Huh? Huge bases are the only kind of bases Butcher doesn’t like...no impending doom. is there anything Butcher3 can't one round? The point is that his threat becomes static. 12 inches (15 with vengeance). That is OUTSIDE Derp range and while inside Dawnsled it isn't inside its Shoot and Scoot (repo) range. You CAN play a good game here with the Argus but you gotta "git gud" and really practice multiple games focusing just on that - positioning the dogs to be extremely irritating and disruptive so that triggering vengenance is almost required. I love me some Butcher3 but I have yet to find him that good into games where we have multiple huge bases. |
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 29, 2019 13:44:49 GMT
I agree on getting practice in with the argus, that command 7 is very limiting.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 29, 2019 14:36:18 GMT
I agree on getting practice in with the argus, that command 7 is very limiting. Actually...... read the card - you trigger vengenance even if outside of command That is part of the practice actually and I am sure Loud Chris level of skillzz...how to think about where you want the Argus the NEXT turn (or even the turn after that) and/or being sure that you can issue the press forward order and still do everything you want to with Butcher without putting him at risk. If you can master that you can RUN that Argus out of command and be irritating and set up "wave 2" to follow up after you force your opponent to move around the medium base. B3 is a fantastic caster for learning those kind of positioning games - just that it is hard and requires a lot of planning.... (And now shit - I am reconsidering not bringing him to today's steamroller ;-) |
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 30, 2019 5:21:34 GMT
My problem with running them out of command is they become about effective as a road bump, no free strikes and have to run towards the butcher the following turn. But i guess that has it's uses.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 30, 2019 6:27:10 GMT
Did you guys not play B_3x3 to catch Stormwall in Juggy mit?
Same principal applies.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 30, 2019 14:56:19 GMT
My problem with running them out of command is they become about effective as a road bump, no free strikes and have to run towards the butcher the following turn. But i guess that has it's uses. They can run Zero inches. Since they are a medium base they can not be trampled over. it is the REVERSE of what Ganso is arguing above (instead of a jugger mit you catch it in a argus speedbump). Again, the issue here is that they WON"T want to trigger Vengenance so if you do it right you essentially pin them (cause moving around a medium base with a huge base is a HUGE pain). |
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 1, 2019 2:55:01 GMT
My problem with running them out of command is they become about effective as a road bump, no free strikes and have to run towards the butcher the following turn. But i guess that has it's uses. They can run Zero inches. Since they are a medium base they can not be trampled over. it is the REVERSE of what Ganso is arguing above (instead of a jugger mit you catch it in a argus speedbump). Again, the issue here is that they WON"T want to trigger Vengenance so if you do it right you essentially pin them (cause moving around a medium base with a huge base is a HUGE pain). Have I been missing a giant fundamental? Do models not have to run their full distance towards the unit leader on a turn they activate out of formation? |
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Post by sand20go on Jul 1, 2019 3:01:45 GMT
They can run Zero inches. Since they are a medium base they can not be trampled over. it is the REVERSE of what Ganso is arguing above (instead of a jugger mit you catch it in a argus speedbump). Again, the issue here is that they WON"T want to trigger Vengenance so if you do it right you essentially pin them (cause moving around a medium base with a huge base is a HUGE pain). Have I been missing a giant fundamental? Do models not have to run their full distance towards the unit leader on a turn they activate out of formation? No. Pg 65 of the rule digest (and frankly not well written). Says you don't get the orders (we knew that) if issued and must either make a full advance toward or run directly toward the caster. Full advance (pg. 30) does not mean the entire amount of its movement, only "advances up to its current speed in inches". seems VERY clear to me - the argus can sit there as a speed bump and require your opponent to accept the full butcher Vengenance move (15 inches with Veg-Sorscha-Enegerize) Depending on board state that will create good delimas for them to deal with.) |
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