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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 22, 2019 0:52:44 GMT
So there's a short 12 minute video up on PP's youtube channel. Towards the end they mention a rework to the current themes. Basically at 75 points all lists get 3 free cards, not dependent on in theme points. I for one love this idea, a solid mix of no theme theme and the current status of themes.
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Jun 24, 2019 0:10:04 GMT
That’s cool... themes are a lot more useful for various comps...hope to see some more original builds.
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Post by mydnight on Jun 24, 2019 0:21:33 GMT
Lets see how they rebalance the themes in lieu of this.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jun 24, 2019 17:22:07 GMT
So, it doesn't really add anything new or change theme options, it just blanket gives 3 free cards. I'm not sure this really makes much of a difference, to be honest. In fact, unless they make this able to scale down (1:25, 2:50) All i think this does is just reinforce the "75 or nothing" ideology.
OOPS Just re-listened to the keynote. it does scale up down it seems. so there's that.
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 24, 2019 17:50:02 GMT
I rather disagree, at least on a few Themes. Irregulars and Disciples of Agony will see a HUGE alteration of builds even if none of the other benefits change.
Right now, Irregulars is 30 points of Units or Warjacks for free points. All other Infantry Themes have theirs at 20 points. Going Infantry is almost contraindicated in this situation.
Then you look at Disciples of Agony where they can take Minion Beasts, but there is little reward past what the Warlock provides because the free cards were locked to Units. With this change, Disciples can easily be as Beast-centric as it is Unit-centric.
Not to mention, at 35 points, a Jack-based Theme could pull 2 frees, while Infantry-based Themes would be stuck at 1 free. Of course, that assumes anyone even bothers looking at anything below 75 points, right?
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jun 24, 2019 20:45:53 GMT
It makes a HUGE difference. Think about what it does for Children of the Dragon. Or for Heavy Metal. Or Jaws of the Wolf. Suddenly including units of Kayazy doesn't cost you another 4 points in missed freebies. Same for Sword Knights. And Children of the Dragon suddenly can play Nyss infantry without being penalized.
Casters can now truly play mixed arms lists without playing at a points disadvantage.
Plus minions and merc units! You can put them in your list without eating into your "non freebie points generating budget"
They really should have had it this way from the beginning but... Anyway, it's pretty damn exciting.
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Post by jagius021 on Jun 24, 2019 21:54:11 GMT
I am very excited for this change. This can turn the game on its head and that is not a bad thing. I see a lot of chaos in the coming months as everyone tries to break their meta
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jun 25, 2019 4:59:16 GMT
Well, you guys are pretty convinced, so its quite possible that I'm not thinking this through entirely. I still remain relatively unconvinced that it will make a significant impact for the vast majority of themes, but I'll be happy to say that I'm wrong if that's what happens.
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Post by mcdermott on Jun 25, 2019 6:01:02 GMT
Well, you guys are pretty convinced, so its quite possible that I'm not thinking this through entirely. I still remain relatively unconvinced that it will make a significant impact for the vast majority of themes, but I'll be happy to say that I'm wrong if that's what happens. Wait til people start feeding you karchev jack lists with greylord support in wolves.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 25, 2019 10:03:36 GMT
Well, you guys are pretty convinced, so its quite possible that I'm not thinking this through entirely. I still remain relatively unconvinced that it will make a significant impact for the vast majority of themes, but I'll be happy to say that I'm wrong if that's what happens. It probably won't change the "top builds" much, because they're already optimizing. But it will be much better for the themes that are currently underrepresented due to being a weird combined arms build. It will also make some (expensive) Mercenary options viable again, because you don't lose anything by including them. Jack/Beast themes should also find it easier to include some screening units.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Jun 25, 2019 12:42:09 GMT
Think about every it will do for Jr war casters, lesser warlocks, and Jack marshalling. No longer will any points spent on their warnouns in an infantry theme cost you additional points.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 25, 2019 18:57:32 GMT
Think about every it will do for Jr war casters, lesser warlocks, and Jack marshalling. No longer will any points spent on their warnouns in an infantry theme cost you additional points.
+1. Now to be fair you get sorscha0 or Andy for "free" usually in Jaws and her points qualify for points in WGI. But now you can do interesting things without squeezing your free points.
So consider the HIGHLY viable combo of Dirty Meg and a Talon in AC.* Usually a no go because it is 10 points that you are using there. Add in that the points never work out perfectly at 60 and that there is a strong value in bring quad takers. Before you could look at that combo and say "well I might want to try it". Now you can do so without hamstring yourself.
R&B also have some places. And I STILL believe there has to be a way to make Brun work - because it simply SUCKS that we FINALLY got to use him and can't find a list in which he works.
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Post by onijet01 on Jun 26, 2019 11:36:39 GMT
Another note i have not seen posted is mercenary/minion unit options. This is what i have been thinking about when i saw the video friday.
If you get a requisition point at 25, 50, and 75 points of models listed in theme forces. Warjacks, Units, and Solos. Then some theme force weaknesses can be augmented now using mercinary/minion options at no cost to free models.
This vould breath new life into lists like legion of steel, who greatly suffer from 0 non-jack range threat. One vould potentially now add a powerful rng unit to the list so hive it some fight in the spread out scenerios.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 26, 2019 11:55:52 GMT
Another note i have not seen posted is mercenary/minion unit options. This is what i have been thinking about when i saw the video friday. If you get a requisition point at 25, 50, and 75 points of models listed in theme forces. Warjacks, Units, and Solos. Then some theme force weaknesses can be augmented now using mercinary/minion options at no cost to free models. This vould breath new life into lists like legion of steel, who greatly suffer from 0 non-jack range threat. One vould potentially now add a powerful rng unit to the list so hive it some fight in the spread out scenerios. Don't forget that as far as we know they will still have the restriction on taking character merc units. Also, rumour has it that all themes except AC are losing the Advance Move benefits. PP giveth, and PP taketh away!
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Post by gordo on Jun 26, 2019 13:26:27 GMT
I've also heard that all 2" to deployment, +1 to go first, etc type benefits will be removed as well.
Also no more hills! Because reasons!
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