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Meta?
Jun 18, 2019 12:36:48 GMT
Post by Dev Null on Jun 18, 2019 12:36:48 GMT
Right. So, here's a thing.
Been a casual player for, I dunno, years. Off and on when the local community would support it. In the last year or so I've moved to a bigger city, supporting a more robust - but still pretty small, at about a dozen - clan of stalwarts. So I'm thinking about joining a local tourney (that pulls people in from a bit more than the immediate group) when it comes around again in a few months. And I'm a bit concerned that the local meta I play in weekly is limited enough that I'm just not seeing a representative sample of opponents. I don't care about winning at any cost, so I'm not trying to engineer The One List To Rule Them All, I just want to not have to spend half an hour asking about models I've never seen before at the start of every match. So I'm asking all y'all that play competitively; what are the big lists I should watch out for? I'm not asking you to describe them, or tactics for them, just tell me to expect Beuregard3 and the Mombassa Brass Ensemble if someone plays Grymkin, and I'll go find out who that is and what they do. What are the obvious lists that you're expecting to turn up at a tourney circa 2019...?
Cheers
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Meta?
Jun 18, 2019 14:42:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by paradox on Jun 18, 2019 14:42:24 GMT
Harbinger - Faithful Masses High Reclaimer - Exemplar Interdiction I think these are still real common meta lists for Menoth. Expect to deal with Sev0 and judicators alot, regardless of caster. Harbinger paladin boat will make you cry. But Mortality is a barrel of laughs vs her. You can also check DGI for lists used in recent events to get a rough handle on the wider meta. www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/ |
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Meta?
Jun 18, 2019 21:59:07 GMT
Post by claptrap on Jun 18, 2019 21:59:07 GMT
Orion double TEP for CoC
Devourer's Host with Iona (any DH list, really), Wormwood in Bones or Orboros for Circle
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Meta?
Jun 19, 2019 5:53:08 GMT
Post by Trollock on Jun 19, 2019 5:53:08 GMT
Skorne Immortals is something to watch out for as many of our current lists struggle in to them, and it is a popular list.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Meta?
Jun 19, 2019 10:28:36 GMT
Post by sorokin on Jun 19, 2019 10:28:36 GMT
Khador Wolves of Winter and Armored Korps probably with Vlad2 piloting either of them.
Also mercs Soldiers of Fortune and Irregulars.
And lastly, Retribution Legions of Dawn, often times with double Tridents.
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Meta?
Jun 20, 2019 1:26:21 GMT
Post by Dev Null on Jun 20, 2019 1:26:21 GMT
Thanks for the data guys! I forgot about the discount games list. I remember a few years back I found a query interface to (I think) the Conflict Chamber database and made a list of which casters were turning up how often.
I'd love to do that again, preferably counting Caster+Theme this time. Problem is, I don't remember where that query interface is, and the only place I posted about it at the time was in the Privateer Circle forums. Don't suppose anyone knows where to find it, assuming it even still exists?
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Meta?
Jun 20, 2019 8:56:57 GMT
Post by Trollock on Jun 20, 2019 8:56:57 GMT
Thanks for the data guys! I forgot about the discount games list. I remember a few years back I found a query interface to (I think) the Conflict Chamber database and made a list of which casters were turning up how often.
I'd love to do that again, preferably counting Caster+Theme this time. Problem is, I don't remember where that query interface is, and the only place I posted about it at the time was in the Privateer Circle forums. Don't suppose anyone knows where to find it, assuming it even still exists?
No idea, but you can mail the developer. Hes really nice and helpful  |
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Meta?
Jun 22, 2019 12:17:38 GMT
Post by Dev Null on Jun 22, 2019 12:17:38 GMT
I sort of poked around and worked most of it out, but I want to hear back from the dev that it's ok to pull his data before I do a full scrape and post the results. If I get an ok - or possibly I suppose if I just never hear back and lose patience - I'll throw some data up here.
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Meta?
Jun 25, 2019 5:42:49 GMT
Post by Dev Null on Jun 25, 2019 5:42:49 GMT
Ok, so the devs at Conflict Chamber haven't got back to me, and I can never resist a puzzle once I find one, so I went ahead and scraped the data (in the least intrusive way I could come up with.) If one of you devs reads this and wants the data taken down, please just say the word and I'll delete this and apologize.
Data from events in conflictchamber.com with the following caveats and exceptions:
* ignored events before 2019 as ancient history, in a meta sense
* ignored events with no listed date or submission date
* skipped players with only one list submitted (not because I think you don't count; my scraper is busted and I just haven't fixed it...)
* haven't done anything to check that the events are real (because how would I, really?)
* haven't listed combos with less than 10 hits; there's just too many
(The number is how many times a combo has appeared, followed by all the combos that have appeared that many times)
106:
Found: c8101b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
74:
Found: c9101b_-0Lnb:Makeda 3:[Theme] Imperial Warhost
61:
Found: c2101b_-0E0J:High Reclaimer 1:[Theme] Exemplar Interdiction
59:
Found: c5101b_-0XhH:Goreshade 4:[Theme] Legions of Dawn
56:
Fetched: cf101b_-12l8:Syvestro 1:[Theme] Magnum Opus
52:
Fetched: ce101b_-0rht:Dreamer 1:[Theme] Dark Menagerie
Fetched: c9101b_-0Ifk:Zaal 2:[Theme] The Exalted
50:
Fetched: ca101b_-0-bs:Kallus 1:[Theme] Primal Terrors
47:
Fetched: cf101b_-12l9:Gearhart 1:[Theme] Magnum Opus
45:
Found: c2101b_-0Om1:Harbinger 1:[Theme] The Faithful Masses
43:
Fetched: c8101b_-0p4a:Krueger 2:[Theme] The Bones of Orboros
38:
Fetched: c4101b_-0UbY:Asphyxious 3:[Theme] Black Industries
36:
Fetched: c3101b_-0T77:Vladimir 2:[Theme] Armored Corps
35:
Fetched: cf101b_-11lr:Mackay 1:[Theme] Prima Materia
34:
Fetched: cb101b_-0v49:Maelok 1:[Theme] The Blindwater Congregation
33:
Fetched: ce101b_-0rhs:Child 1:[Theme] Dark Menagerie
32:
Fetched: c9101b_-0Ley:Xerxis 2:[Theme] Imperial Warhost
Fetched: c8101b_-0p5v:Wurmwood 1:[Theme] The Bones of Orboros
31:
Fetched: c7101b_-0Gj1:Kolgrima 1:[Theme] Storm of the North
Found: c4101b_-0Vkt:Skarre 3:[Theme] Slaughter Fleet Raiders
30:
Found: c4101b_-0B0F:Skarre 1:[Theme] Dark Host
Found: ca101b_-0-kC:Anamag 1:[Theme] Primal Terrors
Fetched: c6101b_-0J5p:Magnus 2:[Theme] The Irregulars
28:
Found: c3101b_-0K77:Vladimir 2:[Theme] Wolves of Winter
27:
Fetched: c3101b_-0Tk_:Sorscha 3:[Theme] Armored Corps
Found: c8101b_-0j5v:Wurmwood 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
26:
Fetched: c9101b_-0LgO:Zaadesh 2:[Theme] Imperial Warhost
Fetched: c9101b_-0I3Z:Morghoul 2:[Theme] The Exalted
Fetched: c8101b_-0j4m:Baldur 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Fetched: c6101b_-0Jb_:Ossrum 1:[Theme] The Irregulars
25:
Found: c5101b_-0znA:Garryth 2:[Theme] Defenders of Ios
24:
Fetched: cb101b_-0Pcr:Rask 1:[Theme] Will Work for Food
Fetched: cf101b_-11lq:Locke 1:[Theme] Prima Materia
22:
Found: c2101b_-0Em1:Harbinger 1:[Theme] Exemplar Interdiction
Fetched: c5101b_-0hb-:Vyros 2:[Theme] Forges of War
Found: c9101b_-0k6I:Rasheth 1:[Theme] Winds of Death
Fetched: c5101b_-0XdU:Issyria 1:[Theme] Legions of Dawn
21:
Found: c5101b_-0AdU:Issyria 1:[Theme] Shadows of the Retribution
Fetched: c4101b_-0U0B:Deneghra 2:[Theme] Black Industries
Fetched: c1101b_-0n91:Brisbane 1:[Theme] Heavy Metal
20:
Fetched: c2101b_-0E0A:Kreoss 2:[Theme] Exemplar Interdiction
Fetched: cc101b_-0ijB:Orion 1:[Theme] Destruction Initiative
19:
Fetched: c8101b_-0jmX:Morvahna 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Found: ce501b_-0rhs:Child 1:[Theme] Dark Menagerie
18:
Found: c9501b_-0Lnb:Makeda 3:[Theme] Imperial Warhost
17:
Fetched: ce101b_-0rhx:Old Witch 3:[Theme] Dark Menagerie
Fetched: cc101b_-0ilI:Locke 1:[Theme] Destruction Initiative
Fetched: c7101b_-0a4N:Madrak 1:[Theme] Band of Heroes
Fetched: ca101b_-0-g-:Kallus 2:[Theme] Primal Terrors
Fetched: cc101b_-0Sdj:Lucant 1:[Theme] Clockwork Legions
Found: c2501b_-0E0J:High Reclaimer 1:[Theme] Exemplar Interdiction
16:
Fetched: c8101b_-0WgM:Una 2:[Theme] Call of the Wild
Fetched: c1101b_-0Fid:Brisbane 2:[Theme] Gravediggers
Fetched: c4101b_-0Ykv:Deneghra 1:[Theme] Scourge of the Broken Coast
Fetched: c5101b_-0X46:Ossyan 1:[Theme] Legions of Dawn
Found: c2601b_-0Om1:Harbinger 1:[Theme] The Faithful Masses
15:
Fetched: c1101b_-0FeS:Haley 3:[Theme] Gravediggers
Fetched: c1101b_-0n9a:Sloan 1:[Theme] Heavy Metal
Found: cb101b_-0P13:Arkadius 1:[Theme] Will Work for Food
Found: c2501b_-0Om1:Harbinger 1:[Theme] The Faithful Masses
14:
Found: c2101b_-0d17:Amon 1:[Theme] The Creator's Might
Fetched: c8101b_-0pex:Thorle 1:[Theme] The Bones of Orboros
Fetched: c4101b_-0Vkv:Deneghra 1:[Theme] Slaughter Fleet Raiders
Fetched: c3101b_-0x8D:Harkevich 1:[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
Fetched: c3101b_-0fdI:Butcher 3:[Theme] Winter Guard Kommand
Fetched: c9101b_-0IgO:Zaadesh 2:[Theme] The Exalted
Found: ce501b_-0rht:Dreamer 1:[Theme] Dark Menagerie
Found: c8501b_-0j5v:Wurmwood 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Found: c8601b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
13:
Fetched: c3101b_-0Khz:Old Witch 2:[Theme] Wolves of Winter
Fetched: cf101b_-11l8:Syvestro 1:[Theme] Prima Materia
Fetched: c2101b_-0d0y:Kreoss 1:[Theme] The Creator's Might
Fetched: c8101b_-0j5B:Grayle 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Fetched: c2101b_-0E1l:Vindictus 1:[Theme] Exemplar Interdiction
Fetched: c1101b_-0n8U:Haley 2:[Theme] Heavy Metal
Fetched: c9101b_-0Inb:Makeda 3:[Theme] The Exalted
Fetched: c7101b_-0GiV:Borka 2:[Theme] Storm of the North
Fetched: ce101b_-0rhv:King of Nothing 1:[Theme] Dark Menagerie
Found: ce601b_-0rhs:Child 1:[Theme] Dark Menagerie
12:
Fetched: c3101b_-0K47:Sorscha 1:[Theme] Wolves of Winter
Fetched: c3101b_-0K7b:Zerkova 1:[Theme] Wolves of Winter
Fetched: c3101b_-0x7a:Karchev 1:[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
Found: c8101b_-0Wfc:Kromac 2:[Theme] Call of the Wild
Fetched: ca101b_-0uaC:Thagrosh 1:[Theme] Children of the Dragon
Fetched: ce101b_-0shu:Heretic 1:[Theme] Bump in the Night
Fetched: c8101b_-0j4w:Mohsar 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Found: c8201b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Found: c8501b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Found: c9601b_-0Ifk:Zaal 2:[Theme] The Exalted
11:
Fetched: ca101b_-0tew:Absylonia 2:[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation
Fetched: cc101b_-0id8:Axis 1:[Theme] Destruction Initiative
Fetched: c7101b_-0aj1:Kolgrima 1:[Theme] Band of Heroes
Found: c91I1b_-0Lnb:Makeda 3:[Theme] Imperial Warhost
Found: c91I1b_-0Ifk:Zaal 2:[Theme] The Exalted
Fetched: ce101b_-0shx:Old Witch 3:[Theme] Bump in the Night
Found: c9601b_-0Lnb:Makeda 3:[Theme] Imperial Warhost
10:
Found: c2101b_-0ElT:Cyrenia 1:[Theme] Exemplar Interdiction
Fetched: c5101b_-0zdU:Issyria 1:[Theme] Defenders of Ios
Found: c2101b_-0deU:Durst 1:[Theme] The Creator's Might
Fetched: ca101b_-0taA:Lylyth 1:[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation
Fetched: c3101b_-0f47:Sorscha 1:[Theme] Winter Guard Kommand
Fetched: c3101b_-0xdI:Butcher 3:[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
Found: ca101b_-0tgN:Fyanna 2:[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation
Fetched: ce101b_-0shw:Wanderer 1:[Theme] Bump in the Night
Found: c9501b_-0Ifk:Zaal 2:[Theme] The Exalted
Found: c5501b_-0XhH:Goreshade 4:[Theme] Legions of Dawn
Found: ca601b_-0-g-:Kallus 2:[Theme] Primal Terrors
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Meta?
Jun 25, 2019 5:57:10 GMT
Post by Dev Null on Jun 25, 2019 5:57:10 GMT
And some quick notes:
Pretty much everything someone mentioned in this thread is in the list somewhere.
Harbinger 1 + Faithful Masses appears three times with three different faction codes in the list? Similar issue with High Reclaimer + Exemplar Interdiction, and Iona1 + Devourer's Host (and very probably others...) Not sure what's going on there.
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Meta?
Jun 25, 2019 14:01:58 GMT
Post by Trollock on Jun 25, 2019 14:01:58 GMT
You sure lost me here  |
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Meta?
Jun 25, 2019 21:42:47 GMT
Post by Dev Null on Jun 25, 2019 21:42:47 GMT
Sorry; been thinking but not writing about this for a bit, and I didn't really connect the dots for the reader at home.
I was curious about what combinations turned up a lot in the larger meta, and someone suggested that I check out Discount Games' site, which gets its data from conflictchamber.com. So I mechanically scraped conflictchamber for lists entered into events in 2019. Caster + theme seemed like the most relevant information, and conflictchamber stores those in a code. So my program counted all the codes, and then looked up what caster + theme combo went with each code. Except some caster + theme combos appear to have more than one code, which is weird. But probably not important, since I'm interested in "what gets used a lot" more than "exactly how much does Iona get used in DevHost". None of the event entries were counted twice, but not necessarily all of the entries for a given caster + theme were added together; instead some get multiple lines with different counts. The real count for Iona+DevHost, for instance, is 144:
106:
Found: c8101b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
14:
Found: c8601b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
12:
Found: c8201b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
Found: c8501b_-0jmP:Iona 1:[Theme] The Devourer's Host
If I were to guess, I'd speculate that the code changes with versions of the rules. But I'd be guessing.
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