Post by Hashmal on May 9, 2019 16:55:00 GMT
I wanted to create a thread to talk about the Season 10 ADR for Protectorate, for all of us who might be Champions-minded later this year (or, like me, those who really really want to be and then life keeps getting in the way).
I've seen precious little chatter about our ADR on the normal channels (FB, Discord), which is a good sign and, I believe, indicative of the balance and relative power our options present against other factions.
For a refresher, our five 'caster options for the coming season are: Malekus, Severius1, Kreoss2, Cyrenia, and Amon. Our theme force options are: Creator's Might and Exemplar Interdiction. Should this change during CID, I'll update this post.
I'll kick this off with some hot takes.
Theme Forces
Overall pretty happy with the theme forces. Both can take Sevy0, which is a plus. And we have access to Sevy1 this go-around (RIP Sevy2, I still love you) so there really is no excuse for you not to take Eye of Menoth in both pairings. Creator's Might isn't our most loved theme force, but workable armies can be made in it, especially with the roster of 'casters we have access to. Exemplar Interdiction is a great theme force and, again, the roster of 'casters we have support lists in it. I'm a fan.
It's great to play in a faction that doesn't have a truly bad theme force.
Warcaster Selection
Continuing the positivity train, I like what we have on offer here. Malekus continues to be the worst option, but he's not taking up a slot for anyone else so whatever--and at least he has access to the one theme force he likes (CM). Kreoss2 and Cyrenia slant towards wanting to be in EI, except for the three of you out there that continue to meme with Cyrenia double Judicator. Were I to do double Judy this go-around, my boy would be Sevy1, who can pinch hit for either CM or EI. Amon rounds out the roster, definitely preferring CM, though Dervish spamming in EI with Blessed Weapons and better deployment at the cost of a couple of free solos remains an option if you're worried about defensive upkeeps.
Of note, we are one of only a small group of factions that got a battlegroup-focused theme and the 'casters to run it. Many other factions will be running much heavier on infantry this season (more on that in Matchups below).
I think solid pairs can easily be developed here. I'll leave it to you to come up with your own flavor, but I personally prefer a Cyrenia EI/Sevy1 CM pair. I did promise to field a rather fun list at NOVA Open, so if you're attending you'll get to see it then (hint: it's Amon). Cyrenia's probably my go-to for EI owing to her spell kit and my continued dissatisfaction with how Kreoss2 plays. I'm hoping that the Observatory objective stays as-is or grants True Sight as a downgrade, because that will free me up from feeling like I have to take Rhoven all the dang time.
Matchups
I love that nobody's talking about our ADR, either positively or negatively. Once faction players wrap their heads around their final lineup, though, I think they're going to come to realize that Prot, right now, is well situated in this season.
TL;DR: Sevy1 is going to be a god.
Cygnar: Haley3 Gravediggers is on the menu. A tough fight, but it has problems with magic weapon access. Shooty CM feels good here and Sevy1 should be able to roast Trenchers alive. Bonus points, you can Feat to lower her DEF buff range before opening up (or just play EI and ignore it entirely). The other option is Storm Division, which I don't feel like poses much of a threat to us at this point given the remaining stable of 'casters (Maddox, Nemo2, Stryker3, Sloan).
Khador: In my opinion, another understated ADR choice. Two solid themes (Legions of Steel/Wolves of Winter) and a solid 'caster stable can see a few dynamic pairs come out of this. This will be matchup dependent, but I like both of our themes into Khador. They will be one of our more even games, depending on who brings what.
Cryx: Cryx is going to have a few problems this ADR. Dark Host is a righteous pain, but at least we're not dealing with Skarre1. Ghost Fleet, however, is pretty easy for us to deal with given our theme and 'caster selection. Plan to face Dark Host. Deal with the Wraith Engine, have a plan for Stealth, and this should be favored to us. Cryx has a good 'caster selection in front of them for this ADR, but are likely going to be controlled by other factions in addition to Prot.
Retribution: Solid pairings across the board. Expect to see Legions dropped against us (likely Ossyan if I were to bet) because with Sevy1 in the mix, Shadows armies tend to evaporate. Watch out for the Kaelyssa Phantom Hunter suckerpunch assassination. This matchup will all depend on how well you can deal with 1-2 Tridents. They're not easy to face, for sure, but I don't outright hate our options into them.
Mercenaries: A bunch of really good stuff. I'm expecting Ossrum/Fiona to be the drop. We are one of the few factions that has historically not had a terrible time into Ossrum, and he'll be playing in Hammerstrike anyway which is less bad than Irregulars. Fiona is more of an X factor, just because she hasn't released from CID yet. I'm betting on her being quite good, though, based on how she ended up. I think Sevy1 CM is probably my go-to here.
Convergence: They seem pretty good in this Champions. I probably prefer EI into them, though the right Amon list could do pretty well. No Orion or Lucant is a good thing to see, but Locke and Axis could make for some real trouble. Fortunately, they are limited to having to take Clockwork Legions as their off-list, so I fully expect them to solo list with either of those two.
Crucible Guard: CG gets to take a Masters pairing. Yay! Can't say I relish the idea of Syvestro/Baldwin or MacKay, but this is playable. My go-to Sevy1 probably isn't amazing here (or is he...). This will be one of our tougher matchups.
Trollbloods: Trolls have some amazing options and a Masters-level pairing in Kolgrimma Storm/Madrak1 Band. The new scenarios play well into the paws of ambushing bears too. If people figure out that Trolls have a serious pairing, they could be a major contender this season. I'm probably going to go with Sevy1 here (because of all the infantry), possibly Cyrenia instead for Take Down Cinerators, but I have no illusions that this will be anything but a hard match. Now, people actually have to play Trolls.
Circle: Oh boy, Circle pooped in someone's cereal. Their 'caster selection is good (standouts being Krueger2 and Morv1 with Mohsar always being a legit choice) but their theme forces are their two weakest. If both are built infantry heavy too, they are *very* vulnerable to Sevy1 just scything them off the table (bonus points: he can't be TK'd either so suck it Krueger). If they go beast heavy, we likely shoot them off the table. This went from a silly hard matchup in Season 9 to one of our most favored in Season 10. Just... watch out for the Storm Raptor.
Skorne: Skorne somehow escaped the wrath that Circle incurred, but not totally. Their obvious first list pick is Zaal2 Exalted. A tough list, but it's beatable by us (Supreme Guardians wilt to Judicators and we can still scythe Immortals off the board in scores). The boon is that we don't have to panic into the Makeda3 off-list drop now. Winds of Death is a good theme force that lets Skorne take all the Battle Engines (I expect 3 in each list) and can ably be supported by the remaining Warlock choices, but doesn't pose the lopsided matchup question that Zaal2/Makeda3 fronts. Dealer's choice on this, but I like Sevy1 CM.
Legion: Legion isn't in a wondrous place. Their 'caster selection is good, with the notable standout of the Twins being added (Saeryn2/Rhyas2). Kallus1 is sad, though--don't expect to see him in a Legion pair this season. I expect to be assassinated by them for a good bit until I figure out what the heck I'm doing. Their themes aren't terrible, but they do contain weaknesses in selection options (Oracles/Children) that make them very vulnerable to our punishing attacks. My prediction is Twins Children/Thags1 or Absylonia1 Oracles for the pairing, with both options live drops. I think it's not bad for us, though.
Minions: Rask Super Friends is on the table in WWFF, so I expect that in near every matchup. Not an especially easy one for us, either, given the current 'caster selection. The other options are decidedly less appealing for Minions players (Helga, Barnabas1, Midas). I expect to get Rask dropped against me in every Minions matchup. My personal favorites for this are Sevy1, possibly Kreoss2 (requires cagey use of Counter Charge), and Amon (you trade up all the time).
Grymkin: So Clockatrices are good, huh? Who knew? Grymkin are probably the faction to beat this season, just because their core army is quite strong. Their Warlock pool, however, isn't their strongest. OW3, King, and Wanderer all pose different problems and play different games, but none front the raw power that Dreamer is able to put out. We will likely see DM dropped against us, as Sevy1 does some pretty bad things to Bump (Feign Death Neigh Slayers still die just fine to Ashes to Ashes bounced off a Warjack) and the Judicator is pretty hard for that theme to deal with. Unsure who will be piloting it--pretty confident OW will be on Bump duty given that the Sacrifice Arcana is so clutch for DM--but it's going to be a real game no matter who is picked. If you have a good answer for Clockatrices, let me know. Our drop is... Sevy1? I am not as confident in this one. Amon is also an option, just because threat ranges are low on Grymkin's end and we can trade up okay. I might also pull out the stops and throw Kreoss2 double Bastion in there, just to pose some problems. They get shredded by Clocks, though.
Infernals: Whew! Feora3 made it in! She's a legit contender in Hearts of Darkness (loved the batreps 'dox). The rest are more unknown to me. Frankly, though, I don't know how much of them we'll see until possibly Warmachine Weekend. The faction will be missing models for most of this season.
Well, those are my long-winded hot takes. How are you feeling?
I've seen precious little chatter about our ADR on the normal channels (FB, Discord), which is a good sign and, I believe, indicative of the balance and relative power our options present against other factions.
For a refresher, our five 'caster options for the coming season are: Malekus, Severius1, Kreoss2, Cyrenia, and Amon. Our theme force options are: Creator's Might and Exemplar Interdiction. Should this change during CID, I'll update this post.
I'll kick this off with some hot takes.
Theme Forces
Overall pretty happy with the theme forces. Both can take Sevy0, which is a plus. And we have access to Sevy1 this go-around (RIP Sevy2, I still love you) so there really is no excuse for you not to take Eye of Menoth in both pairings. Creator's Might isn't our most loved theme force, but workable armies can be made in it, especially with the roster of 'casters we have access to. Exemplar Interdiction is a great theme force and, again, the roster of 'casters we have support lists in it. I'm a fan.
It's great to play in a faction that doesn't have a truly bad theme force.
Warcaster Selection
Continuing the positivity train, I like what we have on offer here. Malekus continues to be the worst option, but he's not taking up a slot for anyone else so whatever--and at least he has access to the one theme force he likes (CM). Kreoss2 and Cyrenia slant towards wanting to be in EI, except for the three of you out there that continue to meme with Cyrenia double Judicator. Were I to do double Judy this go-around, my boy would be Sevy1, who can pinch hit for either CM or EI. Amon rounds out the roster, definitely preferring CM, though Dervish spamming in EI with Blessed Weapons and better deployment at the cost of a couple of free solos remains an option if you're worried about defensive upkeeps.
Of note, we are one of only a small group of factions that got a battlegroup-focused theme and the 'casters to run it. Many other factions will be running much heavier on infantry this season (more on that in Matchups below).
I think solid pairs can easily be developed here. I'll leave it to you to come up with your own flavor, but I personally prefer a Cyrenia EI/Sevy1 CM pair. I did promise to field a rather fun list at NOVA Open, so if you're attending you'll get to see it then (hint: it's Amon). Cyrenia's probably my go-to for EI owing to her spell kit and my continued dissatisfaction with how Kreoss2 plays. I'm hoping that the Observatory objective stays as-is or grants True Sight as a downgrade, because that will free me up from feeling like I have to take Rhoven all the dang time.
Matchups
I love that nobody's talking about our ADR, either positively or negatively. Once faction players wrap their heads around their final lineup, though, I think they're going to come to realize that Prot, right now, is well situated in this season.
TL;DR: Sevy1 is going to be a god.
Cygnar: Haley3 Gravediggers is on the menu. A tough fight, but it has problems with magic weapon access. Shooty CM feels good here and Sevy1 should be able to roast Trenchers alive. Bonus points, you can Feat to lower her DEF buff range before opening up (or just play EI and ignore it entirely). The other option is Storm Division, which I don't feel like poses much of a threat to us at this point given the remaining stable of 'casters (Maddox, Nemo2, Stryker3, Sloan).
Khador: In my opinion, another understated ADR choice. Two solid themes (Legions of Steel/Wolves of Winter) and a solid 'caster stable can see a few dynamic pairs come out of this. This will be matchup dependent, but I like both of our themes into Khador. They will be one of our more even games, depending on who brings what.
Cryx: Cryx is going to have a few problems this ADR. Dark Host is a righteous pain, but at least we're not dealing with Skarre1. Ghost Fleet, however, is pretty easy for us to deal with given our theme and 'caster selection. Plan to face Dark Host. Deal with the Wraith Engine, have a plan for Stealth, and this should be favored to us. Cryx has a good 'caster selection in front of them for this ADR, but are likely going to be controlled by other factions in addition to Prot.
Retribution: Solid pairings across the board. Expect to see Legions dropped against us (likely Ossyan if I were to bet) because with Sevy1 in the mix, Shadows armies tend to evaporate. Watch out for the Kaelyssa Phantom Hunter suckerpunch assassination. This matchup will all depend on how well you can deal with 1-2 Tridents. They're not easy to face, for sure, but I don't outright hate our options into them.
Mercenaries: A bunch of really good stuff. I'm expecting Ossrum/Fiona to be the drop. We are one of the few factions that has historically not had a terrible time into Ossrum, and he'll be playing in Hammerstrike anyway which is less bad than Irregulars. Fiona is more of an X factor, just because she hasn't released from CID yet. I'm betting on her being quite good, though, based on how she ended up. I think Sevy1 CM is probably my go-to here.
Convergence: They seem pretty good in this Champions. I probably prefer EI into them, though the right Amon list could do pretty well. No Orion or Lucant is a good thing to see, but Locke and Axis could make for some real trouble. Fortunately, they are limited to having to take Clockwork Legions as their off-list, so I fully expect them to solo list with either of those two.
Crucible Guard: CG gets to take a Masters pairing. Yay! Can't say I relish the idea of Syvestro/Baldwin or MacKay, but this is playable. My go-to Sevy1 probably isn't amazing here (or is he...). This will be one of our tougher matchups.
Trollbloods: Trolls have some amazing options and a Masters-level pairing in Kolgrimma Storm/Madrak1 Band. The new scenarios play well into the paws of ambushing bears too. If people figure out that Trolls have a serious pairing, they could be a major contender this season. I'm probably going to go with Sevy1 here (because of all the infantry), possibly Cyrenia instead for Take Down Cinerators, but I have no illusions that this will be anything but a hard match. Now, people actually have to play Trolls.
Circle: Oh boy, Circle pooped in someone's cereal. Their 'caster selection is good (standouts being Krueger2 and Morv1 with Mohsar always being a legit choice) but their theme forces are their two weakest. If both are built infantry heavy too, they are *very* vulnerable to Sevy1 just scything them off the table (bonus points: he can't be TK'd either so suck it Krueger). If they go beast heavy, we likely shoot them off the table. This went from a silly hard matchup in Season 9 to one of our most favored in Season 10. Just... watch out for the Storm Raptor.
Skorne: Skorne somehow escaped the wrath that Circle incurred, but not totally. Their obvious first list pick is Zaal2 Exalted. A tough list, but it's beatable by us (Supreme Guardians wilt to Judicators and we can still scythe Immortals off the board in scores). The boon is that we don't have to panic into the Makeda3 off-list drop now. Winds of Death is a good theme force that lets Skorne take all the Battle Engines (I expect 3 in each list) and can ably be supported by the remaining Warlock choices, but doesn't pose the lopsided matchup question that Zaal2/Makeda3 fronts. Dealer's choice on this, but I like Sevy1 CM.
Legion: Legion isn't in a wondrous place. Their 'caster selection is good, with the notable standout of the Twins being added (Saeryn2/Rhyas2). Kallus1 is sad, though--don't expect to see him in a Legion pair this season. I expect to be assassinated by them for a good bit until I figure out what the heck I'm doing. Their themes aren't terrible, but they do contain weaknesses in selection options (Oracles/Children) that make them very vulnerable to our punishing attacks. My prediction is Twins Children/Thags1 or Absylonia1 Oracles for the pairing, with both options live drops. I think it's not bad for us, though.
Minions: Rask Super Friends is on the table in WWFF, so I expect that in near every matchup. Not an especially easy one for us, either, given the current 'caster selection. The other options are decidedly less appealing for Minions players (Helga, Barnabas1, Midas). I expect to get Rask dropped against me in every Minions matchup. My personal favorites for this are Sevy1, possibly Kreoss2 (requires cagey use of Counter Charge), and Amon (you trade up all the time).
Grymkin: So Clockatrices are good, huh? Who knew? Grymkin are probably the faction to beat this season, just because their core army is quite strong. Their Warlock pool, however, isn't their strongest. OW3, King, and Wanderer all pose different problems and play different games, but none front the raw power that Dreamer is able to put out. We will likely see DM dropped against us, as Sevy1 does some pretty bad things to Bump (Feign Death Neigh Slayers still die just fine to Ashes to Ashes bounced off a Warjack) and the Judicator is pretty hard for that theme to deal with. Unsure who will be piloting it--pretty confident OW will be on Bump duty given that the Sacrifice Arcana is so clutch for DM--but it's going to be a real game no matter who is picked. If you have a good answer for Clockatrices, let me know. Our drop is... Sevy1? I am not as confident in this one. Amon is also an option, just because threat ranges are low on Grymkin's end and we can trade up okay. I might also pull out the stops and throw Kreoss2 double Bastion in there, just to pose some problems. They get shredded by Clocks, though.
Infernals: Whew! Feora3 made it in! She's a legit contender in Hearts of Darkness (loved the batreps 'dox). The rest are more unknown to me. Frankly, though, I don't know how much of them we'll see until possibly Warmachine Weekend. The faction will be missing models for most of this season.
Well, those are my long-winded hot takes. How are you feeling?
