Post by Gamingdevil on May 9, 2019 10:27:41 GMT
Don't get your hopes up, because there isn't one. This is basically a thought exercise about what we think the theme needs to be viable. (aka pointless wish listing)
I'll go first:
I think the theme is mostly weighed down by the free choices it can take (all lackluster ones) as well as the horrible Hyper Aggressive "benefit". A couple of models might need a touch up, but I think it's not actually that much.
I would change the benefits as such:
I feel like this would make the theme a lot more attractive, as it would give options to our models that are dependent on tokens and actually allow us to use the cool characters in the theme, either because they now count for points, or can be free. Right now we don't use them because you run out of points after taking enough Thralls and the required support.
Then, the couple of models that need (some) work:
Sepulcher:
RNG 11 on the Flayer cannons, so not literally everything that it shoots is now threatening it. Volume Fire instead of Burst Fire would be awesome, but never going to happen.
Desolator either AoE 5 and POW 15 or straight up Paralysis on a direct hit (obviously not on deviations). I'm not even sure if both would be overpowered (much). It would make it excellent as a support/control piece.
Give it something to do with its corpses besides crapping out Mechanithralls for when the latter is not present. I don't care if it makes (weak) undead solos, or gains something like Crucible of Death, like the Kraken, for efficiency. I just want something.
While we're at it, make the chassis 34 points, because the only problem that Kraken has is that it's slightly too expensive.
Deathjack:
Not sure if he needs it, but 23 points sure is a lot. Drop to 19-20 and he's golden.
Bile Thralls: Eh, just cheaper I guess? You can't expect the old Bile Bomb to return, but right now they're very expensive for their victim stats and don't actually do that much.
Carrion Thralls: Fine I suppose. They're quite annoying to deal with and pretty cheap.
Mechanithralls: Probably fine, though I feel like you're paying a lot for the full package. And the full package is mostly why you play the theme in the first place, for the "cheap" shield guards. Except, they're not really cheap when anchored to a 6/9 unit. I wouldn't be mad if the Mechanithralls picked up 1 STR so their regular attacks go to P+S 11 with a P+S 14 combo strike, but I would accept it if it didn't happen.
Soulhunters: I think these will already be helped with a starting Soul token, but they might possibly want their DEF or ARM to be 15. The ability to buy attacks or maybe Overtake/Sidestep would be nice, but might be over the top.
Note that I don't think we'll see a change to the way recursion works in the theme à la Enigma Foundry. This theme is about bringing back cheap fodder and the Necrosurgeon being a unit might complicate things.
Most of the solos are fine, except the Warwitch Siren, which should be 3 points and the
Skarlock Thrall: Is pretty cheap when compared to the WSC, but doesn't actually do anything except cast Ritual Sacrifice or Ghost Walk. If he stays as is, I would pay a max of 3 points for it, and even then I will probably not take him much. It would be nice if he picked up some tricks from the Squire and got Arcane Repeater and/or Arcane Realignment (going up in points accordingly). I don't think Harmonious Exaltation fits and just picking up Arcane Assist steps too much on Admonia's toes.
For casters, I guess it would be a good opportunity to make Denny 3's dragon more like an actual dragon (more POW, more RAT) instead of the overgrown chicken it is today. Not sure if anything else would fit, or even needs it.
What do you all think?
I'll go first:
I think the theme is mostly weighed down by the free choices it can take (all lackluster ones) as well as the horrible Hyper Aggressive "benefit". A couple of models might need a touch up, but I think it's not actually that much.
I would change the benefits as such:
- For every 20 points of Cryx units (This includes the WSC and Overlords, which makes sense to me, but excludes Thrall solos counting for points) and Battle Engines/Structures (if any Cryx theme is getting a structure, it'll be a necrofactorium) in the army, add one small- or medium-based solo, command attachment, or group of 3 Brute Thralls to the army free of cost (currently not getting any characters for free sucks, hard, but Darragh would be over the top. I think getting free Brutes would be fitting, but possibly too good. Necrosurgeons would still count towards free points, so doesn't matter much if they're free or not.)
- One small-based Thrall unit without ranged weapons gains Ambush (we probably don't want ambushing Bile Thralls, hilarious as it would be. In exchange for the option to include Carrion Thralls, we lose the option for Brutes with the "small-based" tag)
- Non-Warcaster models that are eligible to gain Corpse or Soul Tokens start the game with 1 of the applicable token (more Thralls via initial recursion, more Soulhunters actually being able to use their abilities before dying, give Malice a reason to play in this theme. I honestly don't understand why this wasn't the theme benefit to begin with, except because they wanted to throw our 'Jacks a bone.)
I feel like this would make the theme a lot more attractive, as it would give options to our models that are dependent on tokens and actually allow us to use the cool characters in the theme, either because they now count for points, or can be free. Right now we don't use them because you run out of points after taking enough Thralls and the required support.
Then, the couple of models that need (some) work:
Sepulcher:
RNG 11 on the Flayer cannons, so not literally everything that it shoots is now threatening it. Volume Fire instead of Burst Fire would be awesome, but never going to happen.
Desolator either AoE 5 and POW 15 or straight up Paralysis on a direct hit (obviously not on deviations). I'm not even sure if both would be overpowered (much). It would make it excellent as a support/control piece.
Give it something to do with its corpses besides crapping out Mechanithralls for when the latter is not present. I don't care if it makes (weak) undead solos, or gains something like Crucible of Death, like the Kraken, for efficiency. I just want something.
While we're at it, make the chassis 34 points, because the only problem that Kraken has is that it's slightly too expensive.
Deathjack:
Not sure if he needs it, but 23 points sure is a lot. Drop to 19-20 and he's golden.
Bile Thralls: Eh, just cheaper I guess? You can't expect the old Bile Bomb to return, but right now they're very expensive for their victim stats and don't actually do that much.
Carrion Thralls: Fine I suppose. They're quite annoying to deal with and pretty cheap.
Mechanithralls: Probably fine, though I feel like you're paying a lot for the full package. And the full package is mostly why you play the theme in the first place, for the "cheap" shield guards. Except, they're not really cheap when anchored to a 6/9 unit. I wouldn't be mad if the Mechanithralls picked up 1 STR so their regular attacks go to P+S 11 with a P+S 14 combo strike, but I would accept it if it didn't happen.
Soulhunters: I think these will already be helped with a starting Soul token, but they might possibly want their DEF or ARM to be 15. The ability to buy attacks or maybe Overtake/Sidestep would be nice, but might be over the top.
Note that I don't think we'll see a change to the way recursion works in the theme à la Enigma Foundry. This theme is about bringing back cheap fodder and the Necrosurgeon being a unit might complicate things.
Most of the solos are fine, except the Warwitch Siren, which should be 3 points and the
Skarlock Thrall: Is pretty cheap when compared to the WSC, but doesn't actually do anything except cast Ritual Sacrifice or Ghost Walk. If he stays as is, I would pay a max of 3 points for it, and even then I will probably not take him much. It would be nice if he picked up some tricks from the Squire and got Arcane Repeater and/or Arcane Realignment (going up in points accordingly). I don't think Harmonious Exaltation fits and just picking up Arcane Assist steps too much on Admonia's toes.
For casters, I guess it would be a good opportunity to make Denny 3's dragon more like an actual dragon (more POW, more RAT) instead of the overgrown chicken it is today. Not sure if anything else would fit, or even needs it.
What do you all think?