Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Apr 26, 2019 6:13:17 GMT
I played a 50pts game yesterday with a FoW list against a Cygnar Heavy Metal list and got thrashed, as I've been the few other times I've fielded FoW.
My list wasnt optimal, probably bordering on stupid (I had Dahlia in it...), but compared to Heavy Metal, Jaws of the Wolf, Black Industries and Irregulars FoW doesnt look impressive.
I can see the Pacific Rim lists and Vyros2, Helios and a murder of Griffons being effective, and Rahn + all the battlemages being fun, but are those the only real FoW options?
Maybe it isnt a case of FoW being bad, but more a case of RET being combined arms at heart?
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Post by falkman on Apr 26, 2019 6:57:52 GMT
The main issue with Forges is that it only includes the Shyeel jacks, which means it lacks access to many of our best and most useful jacks. If you could take Banshees, Sphinxes, Harpies and Sirens you would have much better access to the tools needed in many matchups.
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Post by shadowsword751 on Apr 27, 2019 9:08:39 GMT
The other thing to consider, that unlike Heavy Metal, Jaws of the Wolf, and Black Industries, Forges of War does not benefit you for taking specifically myrmidons. It is intended to focus on House Shyeel and what those models do well, which is as usually battlefield manipulation and control not shoving a block of machines into your opponent.
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Post by badnappy on Apr 28, 2019 5:53:31 GMT
I watched Tim Banky on arcane assist pilot a G2 forges list I thought could be built upon.
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 28, 2019 10:05:53 GMT
Take into account the theme alsoalows us to abuse jack martial machanics to the highest ability.
The archanists and and aryificer combos make heavy jacks great. Take into account the following. Example:
Maticore with artificer auto regens d3 sheild a turn, paired withbthe potential of +2 def vs ranged attacks.
Then add to its base the jack martial bonuses of. Crush- +2 melee dmg and extra initial attack.
Hurry- free run or charge
Strike true- +2 to all attack rolls
Take aim- when aiming gain +2 to rng damage rolls.
Now stack the ability to give it 3 focus and concentrated power.
The theme grants flexibility and optimizes shyeel jacks as it sures up their major weakness.
Saying you need Vyre jacks to make the theme good is just lying to players. Its also not a jack theme but a mixed arms theme as ret has no jack theme
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Apr 29, 2019 9:39:26 GMT
So it pales in comparison to jack themes because it really a jack theme? That sorta makes sense to me.
Now, how do I build a decent FoW list then?
If jack marshalls are the order of the day, Helynna and Vyros 1 and 2 seem less interesting. Rahn for maximum movement jank? Thyron for melee? Kaelyssa for stealth/anti stealth? Elara2 or Issyria for debuff/buff? Vyros1 with melee jacks, and a jack marshalls with shooty jacks?
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 29, 2019 12:13:38 GMT
First im gonna ask you two questions. 1. Is this your primary list? If NO what does your primary list not cover? 2. What do you want to see out of your list at 50 points? Examples: conflictchamber.com/?c5200O_-0hmwmvmv3y3y4L0w4L0whMhMRetribution Army - 50 / 50 points [Theme] Forges of War [Ravyn 1] Ravyn, the Eternal Light [+28] - Phoenix [17] - Phoenix [17] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] House Shyeel Artificer [5] - Hydra [15] House Shyeel Artificer [5] - Hydra [15] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] This list optimizes the threat of Hydras gun. As well as a second line melee beat stick. Hydra has focys battery never drops focus. Its gun becomes a base rng 15 pow 15 at 3 focus. It can reach rat 9 through jack martialing, or pow 17 damage on the gun. With crush and concentrated power it can reach p+s 19 melee damage base. Can be sniped for a 19 inch gun. Phoenix can then be fueld by the artificer unit each turn and is both a good infantry counter, can strike deep with ravyns spells and use her pathfinder potentially rocketing in for a 14 inch melee threat or a walking 23 inch (sniped) gun. Alternatively conflictchamber.com/?c5200O_-0hb-2w2wms3y4L0v4L0vhMhMRetribution Army - 49 / 50 points [Theme] Forges of War [Vyros 2] Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard [+27] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Imperatus [20] Arcanist Mechanik [2] House Shyeel Artificer [5] - Manticore [14] House Shyeel Artificer [5] - Manticore [14] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] This list takes advantage of the deceleration bonus while having manticores for anyi infantry rolls. Playing close to vyros 2 the jack martialed manticores make great sheild guards and can place out d3 pow 14 shots, covering fire, or used a a non symergy melee of p+s 22. Vyros can then make his griphons and imperitous more effective as the resourse drain to him in minimized. Easy rider can still give the manticore pathfinder as well. Just remember the crushed, concentrated power, force generated manticore is a p+s 22 and can get to position due to vyros 2 feat. There are countless options really a aspis martialed can regen a d6 feild plus a d3 each turn and has beat back melee. Good for a cheap 6 pt control piece
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Apr 29, 2019 14:22:47 GMT
Vyros2 Griffon spam seems to be pretty good too. There's a guy on youtube that does really indepth battle reports for his retribution lists that's I'm shamelessly going to plug here.As a practical newbie I really appreciate his indepth turn breakdowns and the lists might give you some ideas.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Apr 30, 2019 7:40:18 GMT
1. My first list is Kaelyssa in DoI with lots of shooting. I think it covers stealth and has assasination potential against jack spam. 2. I just want to field lots of jacks, but I probably need something that can crack Khador armour and eat MoW units.
In my tiny local meta we're just starting to play a 50pts 2 list format.
I'm facing at the following lists/casters: Gravediggers with Haley3 or Siege1 Tanky/shooty Heavy Metal with Stryker1 (Caine0 + Ace) AC with Sorsha3 or Irusk2 Jaws of the Wolf with Strakhov2 Storm Division with Nemo3
I'm facing a stealth Behemoth, all the lightning, trencher clouds, ARM 21+ Cygnar jacks and tons of MoW but no real infantry spam, although one of the Khador players is talking about Wolves of Winter, so I might see some Doomnreavers in the near future.
I like the Ravyn list, but I cant help thinking that she'd be better off in DoI with a arcantrik force generator?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Apr 30, 2019 9:19:43 GMT
What about Shadows of the Retribution? With a caster like Ossyan they eat jacks for breakfast and with Phantom Barrage clouds should not be any bother to you.
E-leaps and AC might still be a problem though... hmmmm...
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Apr 30, 2019 9:34:17 GMT
I dont own anything for Shadows, no magehunters at all... no Dawnguard either which is why I'm looking at FoW and DoI
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 30, 2019 11:52:40 GMT
I dont own anything for Shadows, no magehunters at all... no Dawnguard either which is why I'm looking at FoW and DoI What models do you currently have? And what are you expecting to play into? I would love to build a core for your list
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Apr 30, 2019 17:41:01 GMT
Casters: Rahn Issyria Kaelyssa Helynna
Jacks: Sphinx Manticore Hydra Phoenix Griffon x 2 Chimera x 2
Units: Halbs + CA Riflemen Heavy rifle team x 2 Stormfall archers Battle Mages
Solos: Thane Mechanik x 2 Ghost sniper x 2
Mercs: Eiryss1 Sylys Dahlia Lanyssa Aiana and Holt
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on May 8, 2019 6:56:06 GMT
I've been reading up on Helynna in Forges and come up with a list thats a compromise between a couple of netlists and what I own. Hopefully its enough to take Armoured Corps apart.
FoW 50pts Helynna Griffon x 2 Hydra Manticore x 2 Phoenix Arcanist solo x 2 Arcanist unit Lanyssa
The list is all about delivering fully buffed Manticores. Deceleration and shield guarding Griffons for protection, Helynna and Arcanists for buffs, Lanyssa for free charges.
Another option would be Elara 2 running the same list minus one solo, probably Lanyssa. She might want Sylys though, so its a hard choice between him and an Arcanist solo.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on May 10, 2019 6:51:46 GMT
I lost but played a close game against Haley3 yesterday with the list above. I think the loss was more due to my lack of practice and unfamiliarity with Haley3 than the list.
So my pair is:
FoW 50pts Helynna Griffon x 2 Hydra Manticore x 2 Phoenix Arcanist solo x 2 Arcanist unit Lanyssa
DoI 50pts Kaelyssa Manticore Phoenix Arcanist solo Eyriss1 Ghost sniper x 2 Thane Heavy rifle team x 2 Halbs + cmd Riflemen
Would the DoI list have been a better drop into this Haley3 list?
Gravediggers 50pts Haley3 Defender Thorn Sylys Maxwell Finn Express team Threncher infantry min Threncher longunners max + cmd Blockhouse
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