bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Apr 18, 2019 7:17:29 GMT
Thoughts? Doesn't look to me like this is gonna save the Trollbloods currently..
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Post by beardmonk on Apr 18, 2019 7:30:17 GMT
I think its quite interesting. I don't get involved in CiD testing but I will keep and eye on how things develop. We should also be interested in the Primal Archon as well. Both have their uses.
Fiddling around with some lists, remember that the Dhunian Archon will be free as its partisan Trolls. So free forall the healing and support + once a turn matrydom is quite good. But it takes the place of other free support solos. My first thought is to use it to support a Champion bundle.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Apr 18, 2019 10:15:38 GMT
... but champions are bad...
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Post by elricaltovilla on Apr 18, 2019 10:22:45 GMT
It doesn't help trolls in any of the ways they currently need help.
1. Does not do anything to prevent enemies from blocking our healing or tough.
2. Does nothing for our ranged game: no ability to counter LOS blockers, no damage boost, no range extension.
3. Does not provide any boost to damage. We need damage buffs more than defensive tech. Trolls have ARM, DEF and steady out the ass. We have bad offenses that are keyed to very limited models that can easily be focused down.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Apr 18, 2019 10:27:54 GMT
Completely agree.
#"best support in the game" Really Will? x(
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Apr 18, 2019 15:30:50 GMT
Can someone explain to me why they are letting the faction that worships the Devourer Worm use the freaking avatar of Dhunia? From what I remember they don't get along too well. They can't make her "the best support in the game" without making Circle that much better...
All of her abilities are just so corner case. If they other player has gw or no soul collection then she doesn't do diddly. And coming from a Cryx perspective, outside of a few jacks and the casters the -2 ability doesn't really affect me. She can't be healed by the DK or Mads1 because she isn't living.
Unless they bite the bullet and make her Trollbloods only, she won't be the silver bullet that lifts the faction back up. She's just another so-so support model we will have to decide if we feel like playing while we are waiting out the next TB CID.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Apr 18, 2019 16:44:28 GMT
Man, you make some very good arguments :/
My hopes just plummeted..
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Apr 18, 2019 17:08:53 GMT
She offers me nothing that I am looking for in Trolls, apart from Soul Ward. I'm not calling her bad, just not on my radar.
And nothing is *free*. She takes a slot regardless. If she's a Minion/Merc I'd rather have half a dozen others. If she's Partisan. I'd rather have a fell caller or Valka (for instance). Make her 27 points and available for free, it doesn't matter if she doesn't have the utility/abilities I am looking for. Sometimes the free elder is worth more in a list than free Valka, regardless of Valka being "more points". (thats probably never true or going to happen in good list building but you can get the point)
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Post by elricaltovilla on Apr 18, 2019 21:26:35 GMT
I'd go so far as to say that literally any of the other archons would be better for trolls than the Dhunian Archon.
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Post by Azahul on Apr 19, 2019 9:52:15 GMT
Can someone explain to me why they are letting the faction that worships the Devourer Worm use the freaking avatar of Dhunia? From what I remember they don't get along too well. They can't make her "the best support in the game" without making Circle that much better... Just quickly, the Circle Orboros actually "worships" (more accurate would be to say they believe in and tap into) a single complete entity comprising both the Wurm and Dhunia. They use their affinity for the primal side of nature to convince the actual Wurm-worshippers that they are high priests of the Wurm in some capacity, but this is just manipulation. They actually just see the Wurm as one side of nature and the side whose power they can readily access. A Circle Druid may attend a cannibal feast by a Tharn tribe and receive honour and veneration as if they were a high ranking part of this religion, but privately they are likely to be looking down upon this simplistic understanding of nature and simply play their part without any true belief. Dhunia plays a part in their understanding of the world, she's just not the side they're more likely to call upon when they go to war, but remember that the inciting incidents that led to Trollbloods becoming a semi-unified faction under Madrak involved the Circle reaching out to try and co-opt a Dhunian worshipping race. The key, on the mechanical side, to making her better without improving Circle would just be to offer things that Circle doesn't particularly need. Handing out Rapid Healing to warrior models, for example, only provides a particularly big boost to Skinwalkers, who are part of their least liked theme. Even Rapid Healing on living models, period, is of less valuable to them since a) it means doubling down on a mechanic they already get on Ghetorix, and the attendant risks that brings in the form of counter tech, and b) they have the squishiest Gargantuan available, and Ghetorix as mentioned already accounts for their toughest heavy with the mechanic built in. That's just one example. Providing mass Pathfinder would be another.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Apr 19, 2019 13:17:17 GMT
In a casual meta with less anti-healing abilities fielded routinely, she would be a great support piece. In the current meta I play in, she does not particularly support my armies' needs. This may change with the influx of Infernals (?), but I somehow doubt that Infernals will be cursed with no anti-healing tech. The denial of souls is an ability that may help in the near future (previously my PoM got a mounted version, foreshadowing?). Corpse denial would help immediately. Her death-activated ability also would be best coupled to a redirected damage ability, eg Shield Guard or "When damaged, a TB warlock model may immediately spend a Fury to transfer damage to this model, once per turn." Thinking outside the box, provides answer(s).
The social media hype (via W.H.) that accompanies this model reminds of the past. Release of Highwaymen was preceded by enthusiastic fanfares from PP, something like 'TB players are going to love this unit...'. Alas, that was not to be. I suspect TBs have been/are designed by committee, rather than an advocate? (ref: New Tharn (Pagani?) tuning). CID notwithstanding...
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Post by Kevin on Apr 19, 2019 13:39:00 GMT
Hmm, not to add more salt, but how would she be a great support piece :?: Once a turn Martyr is more or less easy to counter, other then that she has no way to support her army. When ya will try do get her killed for army wide heal - she can taf :)Nonsense model.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Apr 19, 2019 15:43:09 GMT
I think she needs a command range passive "models not affected by grevious wounds or entropic force" and a spell that gives a warrior model/unit rapid healing. I would also like to see her have some kind of fury management ability for warbeasts. I think this would balance her against Circle and Trolls because of her being partisan Trollbloods. Or she needs to be able to martyr more than once a turn and have access to some kind of personal healing(Hyper-Regen?). Something to make her more active and not just hope your opponent doesn't know what she does and falls into your hands.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Apr 20, 2019 10:28:15 GMT
Seems to me that Privateer Press does not understanding theorie OWN trollblood Army. And they have no clue as what is needed in a meta for trolls. The only way the archon might change is to flood the cid rum with battle reports and show them the piece is useless in its current form.
Shouting here does not help.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Apr 20, 2019 18:47:45 GMT
Agreed. But who wants to playtest an uninteresting mediocre model?? It occurred to me that Will is maybe too concerned about the new hotness and less into the core functionality of each faction as you mention ravenfire. Several times now on dev chats a lot of people ask questions about circle and LotF, if we get a nerf, or some counter etc. and he answers that this new model can do this to counter this, and this can counter this issue. It seems that they design the new stuff to counter the meta benders instead of producing solid new interesting content and/or swing the nerf bat/FAQ some stuff. Isn't that kinda wrong? The anti soul stuff on the Dhunian Archon screams to me like an attempt to counter the new hotness: Immortals. Just like the "no placement effects" bubble on the other archon to counter LotF. Or grievous wound on any of the new stuff; Howlers, Makeda3, Garrath2 (mortality), to counter ravager and chosen self heal. And look what happens, a whole faction who is taxed for having tough is caught in the crossfire. Maybe theres a better way, just saying... I'm not on the CID forum but somehow doubt they would listen to or even notice all my salt in the ocean already in there
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