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Post by sand20go on Apr 15, 2019 4:27:40 GMT
What are you doing to deal with Big Bird?
Kinda a challenge
def 12 Arm 18 50 boxes without hunters mark or other extensions threats 12 4 Fury Oh at with SkyHigh you are definately not shooting it
Now I "guess" the good news is that it is a bit pillow fisted so isn't going to one shot you. It DOES have disruption. So you definitely have to play the Khador game and layer stuff. But I would be interested in seeing what you have had success in dealing with it. There were so many Raptors at Kingdomcon this weekend....
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 15, 2019 8:32:42 GMT
What are you doing to deal with Big Bird?
Kinda a challenge
def 12 Arm 18 50 boxes without hunters mark or other extensions threats 12 4 Fury Oh at with SkyHigh you are definately not shooting it
Now I "guess" the good news is that it is a bit pillow fisted so isn't going to one shot you. It DOES have disruption. So you definitely have to play the Khador game and layer stuff. But I would be interested in seeing what you have had success in dealing with it. There were so many Raptors at Kingdomcon this weekend....Other Colossals should be decent against it. Immune to Disruption and it doesn't hit all that hard in melee. In general, ARM and box spam should be usable against it, so maybe some form of AC with a Colossal?
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Post by chickenslayer on Apr 15, 2019 9:45:23 GMT
Koldun Lords and Marauders? Paired with good positioning and/or anti shooting tech like wind storm and wind blast?
Like seriously, it's a storm raptor. It awkward, has incredible problems making its points back unless you let it Live The Dream and even when thrown in with a list like Iona it fundamentally doesn't change the core problems facing that list
What kind of Strong Raptor list is actually giving you trouble
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Post by reddust82 on Apr 15, 2019 10:35:03 GMT
I was under the impression the raptor was a subpar gargantuan as well... why do you think there were so many at the tournament?
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 15, 2019 11:34:17 GMT
To put it in short hand.
The storm Raptor...
Is an out to rapid healing armies. Immune to hazardous terrain features at flight and spd 7.
Has the ability to boost electric attack rolls of models within 10 inches of it. (Opens up kruger assasinations)
Has sustained attack on a minimum 13 inch theat auto hit burst paired with the potential for a 21 inch minimum assassination.
If you can shoot it it can get to you. Has a 3" move ability after attack.
If enemy models hit it in melee they tak a pow 10 damage roll (not caused by an attack)
And all melee strikes electro leap.
Both electro leaps and plasma nimbus get around b9nd of brothers and similar transfer abilities allowing focus fire to kill models easily
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 15, 2019 12:10:49 GMT
Something something T-Rex?
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Post by sand20go on Apr 15, 2019 14:00:08 GMT
Koldun Lords and Marauders? Paired with good positioning and/or anti shooting tech like wind storm and wind blast? Like seriously, it's a storm raptor. It awkward, has incredible problems making its points back unless you let it Live The Dream and even when thrown in with a list like Iona it fundamentally doesn't change the core problems facing that list What kind of Strong Raptor list is actually giving you trouble I have seen it used effectively with a variety of Circle casters but the main way has been as a yo yo'ing gun platform with the three (there may be more) control casters...... Krugar2 - so has solid (great?) game into any AC list because of Rebuke unless you were corner case and brought Zerkova1. That would go out on likely the shocktroopers and stay the whole game (or force you to try desperately to kill the scary tree prior to that). TK to further frustrate you. Of course the feat. Your long range shooting could be in trouble (but with "just" 14 inch control windstorm isn't "too" bad and K2 is old man squishy). This is likely the off pair to Iona DH (so a great counter to Khador's counter of Sorscha1). Mostly in Bones with shrimp and Geomancy "fun" (MORE TK) or Call for the free animus. The Bird's role here is to be a back line gun platform - creating a big "no go" 13 inch zone where he can autokill anything trying to get back to score. As noted below, the Bird also creates for the less experienced with this match up a pretty sweet Krugar 2 assassination run with SkyFire(s). So you gotta get back to it and kill it and you gotta do it RELATIVELY fast. You CAN just try to ignore it and pick out the other stuff and force it to come to you - but that is easier said than done depending on the TK/Rebuke play and how good the circle player is. Moshar. This was the loss this weekend that "stung" as all that was done was that the big bird stood back and shot at stuff in Spread the Net while Moshar contested with his uber 18 inch control range and Pillars of true salt.. I should have dropped AC rather than Wolves into it. But pretty similar - back range gun platform. It also sets up a pretty solid assassination run - again because as soon as he is able to abuse sands of fate - shoot/crevas - sand of fate to scapal out the koldun lords now the big bird can start to look to abuse the pulse and sustained attack. wormwood - again control. Abuse feat/rapid growth/shrimp/stones to hold you off. Add the bird in for more of mid/back line shooting. Now that play is a LOT less effective in scenarios that force the armies in. (Pit 2 for example). But those scenarios ALSO are ones that can leave a decent amount of your army "clumped - something that the bird is looking for as it will fly in, pulse, and then repo back. Perhaps the best way to think about the bird is as a PAIR with DH. If your best bet with the Tharn is to go "many" and not give let him abuse the armor cracking potential of the Tharn then the big bird is great.....especially since "living the dream" isn't that hard since it is a BIG bubble and SP 7 with flight lets it get around a lot of things that other slower Gargs might not be able to.
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Post by michael on Apr 15, 2019 15:46:31 GMT
Hit it with a hammer. It’s just plastic, it’s pretty fragile.
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Post by chickenslayer on Apr 16, 2019 8:51:08 GMT
So here's the part where I point out that it is completely impossible to play a Storm Raptor in Bones -_-
Like, great examples of theory machine terror. Provide actual examples of lists where it was used to good effect. Like this Mohsar list that apparently you lost to.
Also, and I'm going to be honest here, it is your own job to avoid getting Pulsed. Ie letting the bird justify its existance. It's a positioning game and one where you should give the bird pulse targets that will result in it getting counter punched. Because if all the bird is doing is just poking you with its long range gun then a very poor use of a Gargantuan. And given how telegraphed the Pulse is, it should not be a surprise when it happens.
Frankly the bird's value on table is often bigger than its numbers, which I've always liked, but the problem Circle have always had with it is that it doesn't fit in a list that ties it all together in a seemless package. Like Krueger in Secred Masters might want to run this thing and that was in the WmW winning list...I guess. Good meme value.
It is and remains a Tom Guan approved model for doing silly plays, memes and looking pretty as opposed to competitive main-line terror.
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Post by ScottishMeta on Apr 16, 2019 10:27:34 GMT
If you are so terrified of the Pulse assassination, don't forget you can shield guard the pulse away from your Caster.
Other than that - what Chris said.
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Post by Mr.Human on Apr 17, 2019 6:30:38 GMT
I had good success against Krueger2 and the Raptor with Karchev, pretty much all my opponent could do was go for assasination.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 17, 2019 13:13:32 GMT
I had good success against Krueger2 and the Raptor with Karchev, pretty much all my opponent could do was go for assasination. But doesn't that put you into list chicken if they have thorn on the table? I guess it depends on which thorn....I so wish that karchev's feat still boosted attack rolls.
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on Apr 17, 2019 13:47:45 GMT
Hit it with a hammer. It’s just plastic, it’s pretty fragile. you mean axe? I had good success against Krueger2 and the Raptor with Karchev, pretty much all my opponent could do was go for assasination. But doesn't that put you into list chicken if they have thorn on the table? I guess it depends on which thorn....I so wish that karchev's feat still boosted attack rolls. I wish they would roll back the knee jerk overnerf the did at the beginning of mkiii
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 17, 2019 15:14:12 GMT
Technically a straight-handled thick-headed narrow-bladed edgeless axe. I wish they would roll back the knee jerk overnerf the did at the beginning of mkiii That would be nice.
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Post by Mr.Human on Apr 17, 2019 16:23:37 GMT
I had good success against Krueger2 and the Raptor with Karchev, pretty much all my opponent could do was go for assasination. But doesn't that put you into list chicken if they have thorn on the table? I guess it depends on which thorn....I so wish that karchev's feat still boosted attack rolls. Two words, it does.
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