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Post by Havock on Apr 17, 2019 22:18:36 GMT
So, one attempt here.
Vlad 3 +27 Judicator (34) War Dog (3)
Full Uhlans 20
Drakhun (9) Drakhun (9) Champion of the Order of the Wall (8) Champion of the Order of the Wall (8) Fenris (8)
Take a Vassal Mechanic and Vassal of Menoth for one freebie, The hermit and Yuri as the other two. Good? Dunno. But fun.
And Drakhuns and Champions are best friends forever. Alternatively swap Fenris for Markov and ditch the dog (or swap him out for Yuri?) and take double Uhlans.
Uhlans instead of Vengers because they are slightly more self sufficient (innate steady and relentless charge)
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Post by sand20go on Apr 17, 2019 22:23:35 GMT
My take. Victor is a Conflict Stand in for Judi. I went for Raw speed on both flanks with the Judicator and the 2 solos taking the center. Flamebringers are going to hunt Tharn all day long conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1hbWf8jCoR8p8x3z3B8y2_dS7KKhador Army - 73 / 75 points [Theme] Warriors of the Old Faith !!! This army contains a CID entry. !!! This list is using a CID theme. [Vladimir 3] Vladimir Tzepesci, Great Prince of Umbrey [+27] - Victor [34] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] Hermit of Henge Hold [0(4)] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Uhlan Kovnik Markov [7] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Wrack [1] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Iron Fang Uhlans (max) [20]
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 17, 2019 22:25:16 GMT
I wonder how many people are going to try Vlad_3 Judy? I actually don't think his Judy is as good as High Reclaimers, or any army with Sevy_0 for that matter. On the other hand Flame Bringer Eliminators are really interesting to me, Sprinting 9 inches away after landing all those sweet Hand of Fated Weapon Master attacks sounds pretty sweet. Also, can we maybe start spamming Crusaders and get them nerfed also?
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Post by Havock on Apr 17, 2019 22:34:38 GMT
I wonder how many people are going to try Vlad_3 Judy? I actually don't think his Judy is as good as High Reclaimers, or any army with Sevy_0 for that matter. On the other hand Flame Bringer Eliminators are really interesting to me, Sprinting 9 inches away after landing all those sweet Hand of Fated Weapon Master attacks sounds pretty sweet. Also, can we maybe start spamming Crusaders and get them nerfed also? It's still a double HOF dumb output collossal, the only thing he really lacks is Sevvy0.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 17, 2019 22:42:05 GMT
I wonder how many people are going to try Vlad_3 Judy? I actually don't think his Judy is as good as High Reclaimers, or any army with Sevy_0 for that matter. On the other hand Flame Bringer Eliminators are really interesting to me, Sprinting 9 inches away after landing all those sweet Hand of Fated Weapon Master attacks sounds pretty sweet. Also, can we maybe start spamming Crusaders and get them nerfed also? It's still a double HOF dumb output collossal, the only thing he really lacks is Sevvy0. This. And what it has over High Reclaimer...... Focus 7 vs. 5 Jack buff speed (infernal Machine) Personal assassination threat Dash to speed up horses
Now HR has a GREAT ball busting it will kill you feat with returned models. No doubt. But like Strakov - it better work or you are dead. Vlad3's feat is lackluster _EXCEPT_ it is important to note the theme buff to impact attacks. Now you are MUCH more likely to hit the infantry models you need to kill on the way in so that you can trigger off them for the sprint. Uhlans REALLY like that. Of course you gotta deliver them - a challenge, but lets see how it works and how much people despise "fast khador" - cause it is BLINDLY fast.
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Post by Havock on Apr 17, 2019 23:02:08 GMT
Delivering Uhlans with V3 isn't that hard, they are effectively SPD9 and still have relentless charge.
For the sake of transport I'd take Flamebringers though, especially if you go with the superfriends solos approach. I mean, really. You have Judi as well as "the weaponmaster gang"; the Champions also really like his feat because they can whack with their shield, between this and linebreaker they are incredibly dangerous against screens and/or great at punching through them. Between these guys, cracking armor isn't going to be the issue.
Not using IM is a big fat cry-me-some-more, HOF'd Judy compensates.
If you want to, you can always take a Menite Light, the Dervish probably loves that shit.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 18, 2019 0:42:44 GMT
I dunno, the +1 from Sevvy_0 is really what makes all those AoEs any good. The math just doesn't seem to be worth getting excited over.
Assuming HoF is a constant: Connie at RAT 4 vs Judy at RAT 1 with Reliquary, Connie wins out.
Adding Choir is a Constant: Connie gets a POW 12 Blast damage vs Judy's POW 9 with Reliquary. Again Connie wins out.
Only departments that Judy wins is Threat range, which is pretty sweet I admit.
I think Conny wins out in the Damage department. Should probably run the numbers on this. But I don't think getting wide eyed over Judy in Khador is justified.
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Post by Havock on Apr 18, 2019 1:22:22 GMT
You're forgetting the two 10" Sprays. And the secondary blast. And Judy has double Hand of Fate, it screws up the curve something fierce.
Also, as noted, SPD5 is a big improvement over SPD4.
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Post by mcdermott on Apr 18, 2019 1:28:14 GMT
WTB cavalry harkevich who can use protectorate jacks.
Or morrowan harkevich who can broadsides defenders.
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Post by Havock on Apr 18, 2019 3:11:31 GMT
Feora3 can do some dumb shit with Decimators or Demolishers.
How do two POW19 shots at RAT6 sound?
Demolishers specifically might just offer her a safe-ish wall to advance behind, especially if the Greylords plonk some clouds on them. It might not be good but it's janky.
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Apr 18, 2019 3:57:12 GMT
Immediately playing this next game night:
!!! This list is using a CID theme.
[Vladimir 3] Vladimir Tzepesci, Great Prince of Umbrey [+27] - Judicator [34] Uhlan Kovnik Markov [7] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Hand of Silence [7] Manhunter [0(4)] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Iron Fang Uhlans (min) [12] Iron Fang Uhlans (min) [12]
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 18, 2019 4:58:30 GMT
You're forgetting the two 10" Sprays. And the secondary blast. And Judy has double Hand of Fate, it screws up the curve something fierce.
Also, as noted, SPD5 is a big improvement over SPD4.
Each extra dice is equivalent to a +2 on average. Remember we can't have Infernal Machine and HoF at the same time. So taking into consideration Reliquary, HoF, Choir and we would have the equivalent of Connie: 1x RAT 6, POW 19, Blast 12, AoE 4 attack that threatens 19 inches 4x RAT 6, POW 14, Blast 14 AoE 3 attacks that threaten 16 inches, with. Judy 2x RAT 5, POW 18, Blast 11, AoE 3 attacks that threaten 19 inches. 2x Blast 11, AoE 3 attacks that could potentially threaten 25 inches. 2x RAT 9, POW 16 SP10 attacks that threaten 10 inches. Given the availability of Choir for Khador jacks, and the lack of Sevvy_0, I think there is a good argument for Connie over Judy if you are going for pure damage output vs Infantry clearing.
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Post by Havock on Apr 18, 2019 5:19:36 GMT
Well, yeah, choir helps our stuff a lot. *surprisedpikachu*
But really, take a Dervish for Infernal Machine, it's cheap throwaway that hits stupidly hard and accurate for what it costs.
And really, those sprays are just Firetrucking dumb. S&P might only yield a +2 on paper but stack two and you are highrolling an awful lot. Especially with boosts. Having played against it is just gross, maybe Connie is the same under choir but them sprays man. SP10 OP.
Also, Connie cannot into blast immunity.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 18, 2019 5:52:00 GMT
Also, Connie cannot into blast immunity. If Blast immunity is a concern, it's doubly so for Judy. SP10 are awesome, but Judy will use them once and then get killed. If Judy is playing cagey keep away, it will fall behind Connie for pure range output. Oddly enough Connie can stay further back and still get her full 5 attacks out at full strength. Judy needs to be 2 inches farther forward to actually use the SP10s. I honestly believe the real strength of Old Faith for Khador is access to Choir. Our MAT is naturally higher, our POW is naturally higher, and our guns are just better also. We can take our better jacks and make turn them up to 11 with Choir, or we can run a crappier version of Judy. At least that's how I'm seeing it. We'll get access to 2 Empower Solos and Choir. It's already better than Jaws
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Post by MrHaystacks on Apr 18, 2019 10:39:12 GMT
Does the line "Khador Cavalry Units/Models" allow the battle engines? I am trying to see if the gun carriage or the MoW Assault chariot can clear some chaff to let ulhans get to the meatier targets?
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