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Post by paradox on Apr 8, 2019 23:22:18 GMT
Because you appear to lack imagination, here’s some examples: Literally any Menoth list with Sev0. Road to War dervish will trade up easily, and outthreats even feated horrors, other than a feated soul stalker. And that doesnt count side step movement. Plus, we’re not even considering the actual caster yet. Eg, Thyra, who can out threat Omo over his feat threats. Speaking of, Blood of Martyrs in that same list can probably down 1-2 heavies. Or a heavy and solos/troops. Omodamos will not recover from that, and has no choice but to take it on the chin.
Or Vindy in EI. Just blow it all off the table with unchargeable exemplars under True Path.
Or LOL Amon.
In Circle, Kromac1 can also play RtW games, for one. But really, any Hunters Mark at all will guarantee the alpha Or Una2, just generally. Do we even bother mentioning Iona? Literally any list with LotF?
What about Kraye in Cygnar?
Just off the cuff. But you know, keep insisting on being obtuse. Keep pretending that burning a feat for 11” threats is good. Tell me how that pans out vs an opponent with a pulse.
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Post by whaleman on Apr 9, 2019 1:54:11 GMT
I played Omodamos the most out of my testing and I found him to be perfectly good especially under the final rule set. With the junior his army is basically always +2 ARM and with the Infernal Gates bonus 2" place he has very far threats. I personally like bring Lamenters with him for the further defensive tech. With Synergy the Lamenters can trade up pretty well if you can get the Desolator debuff on the target. While its true that he loves to see lots of souls across the table from him his basic gameplan does not require the souls as long as you have Roget.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Apr 9, 2019 2:01:48 GMT
It seems like we might need something like Griever Swarms or well-placed Howlers to absorb the alpha strike when we're out-threatened. Griever Swarms would get wrecked by cavalry and AoEs. Howlers don't cover that much area. Both are points I don't want to give up.
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Post by whaleman on Apr 9, 2019 2:07:41 GMT
2 Units of Howlers covers a good enough amount of area with reach and vengeance in my experience they also get work done and can be brought back and still vengeance the turn they are brought back.
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Post by paradox on Apr 9, 2019 14:26:17 GMT
I played Omodamos the most out of my testing and I found him to be perfectly good especially under the final rule set. With the junior his army is basically always +2 ARM and with the Infernal Gates bonus 2" place he has very far threats. I personally like bring Lamenters with him for the further defensive tech. With Synergy the Lamenters can trade up pretty well if you can get the Desolator debuff on the target. While its true that he loves to see lots of souls across the table from him his basic gameplan does not require the souls as long as you have Roget. I did not get to test Omodamos under Week 3.3. I think you have some good points, but Im still concerned that Zaateroth does it better, and that any anti-spell really hoses Omodamos. Lamentation or the Covenant really wreck his day. Synergy is a great spell, but youre stating with relatively costly horrors for their hitting power. And, of course, poor threat ranges. With his feat being the only extender he can bring, itd seem like a Gate is auto for him. What list build do you most like? Have a bat rep link in CID?
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Post by paradox on Apr 9, 2019 14:27:02 GMT
It seems like we might need something like Griever Swarms or well-placed Howlers to absorb the alpha strike when we're out-threatened. Griever Swarms would get wrecked by cavalry and AoEs. Howlers don't cover that much area. Both are points I don't want to give up. This was my thought too. But I didnt get in testing before CID closed.
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Post by whaleman on Apr 10, 2019 5:50:54 GMT
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Post by paradox on Apr 10, 2019 13:44:06 GMT
Good read. Thats definitely a good match insofar as threat ranges go. MoWs are slow, so natural threats were limited, allowing Omodamos to outthreat with his feat. But both seem like anvil armies, with Battle Lust ramping up MoW output, where Synergy bumps horrors. Seems like the wall/lamentor combo early on stalled the MoWs progress enough to make howlers tip the balance here. But I do feel it still shows Omodamos playing counter-punch, rather than alpha, taking 2x howlers, then hoping to recursion and hit back.
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Post by whaleman on Apr 10, 2019 19:07:37 GMT
Thats fair paradox. I do feel that Omodamos can counterpunch with this setup but with the Infernal Gate I had very far threat ranges if I wanted to missile in with a couple of horrors or howlers under feat. One take away from that fight is that while I brought Lamenters mainly for the possible defensive tech them having flight, ghostly and synergy meant they could go deep and do some serious damage. I think Omodamos will probably always want the Infernal Gate and at least a unit of Horrors with his current build. Howlers with 8 wounds arm 19 and no knockdown tough have really good odds of living through the alpha even if you don't get it. The Gate can also recursion and still get souls during its turn to do other things.
In the end I think Omodamos goes well in a pair with Zaateroth. I think she will deal with all the guns and many other lists. Omodamos will sit in your list as a monster for when you see your opponent has some nice souls for you to use because when he has good access to souls he feels like a monster.
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Post by paradox on Apr 10, 2019 19:18:03 GMT
Thats fair paradox. I do feel that Omodamos can counterpunch with this setup but with the Infernal Gate I had very far threat ranges if I wanted to missile in with a couple of horrors or howlers under feat. One take away from that fight is that while I brought Lamenters mainly for the possible defensive tech them having flight, ghostly and synergy meant they could go deep and do some serious damage. I think Omodamos will probably always want the Infernal Gate and at least a unit of Horrors with his current build. Howlers with 8 wounds arm 19 and no knockdown tough have really good odds of living through the alpha even if you don't get it. The Gate can also recursion and still get souls during its turn to do other things. In the end I think Omodamos goes well in a pair with Zaateroth. I think she will deal with all the guns and many other lists. Omodamos will sit in your list as a monster for when you see your opponent has some nice souls for you to use because when he has good access to souls he feels like a monster. I wonder how the game would have gone if he’d focused early fire all into the Gate.
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Post by whaleman on Apr 10, 2019 20:43:06 GMT
He actually talked about it and he did put shots into it with the Victor because I forgot 5" aoe's are larger than huge bases and put things in b2b with it. While he did damage the Gate in the end dealing with the gate meant not dealing with things that were just going to kill him otherwise.
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Post by paradox on Apr 10, 2019 22:57:34 GMT
He actually talked about it and he did put shots into it with the Victor because I forgot 5" aoe's are larger than huge bases and put things in b2b with it. While he did damage the Gate in the end dealing with the gate meant not dealing with things that were just going to kill him otherwise. What I mean is, victor can hit the main gun top of 1. It deploys 7”, walks 6” with Superiority, and shoots 20”. Thats 33”. Going 2nd, the Gate can deploy 18” up. I assume you did, because you note opting to go second in part for Gate positioning. That Gate has to deploy less than 15” on to avoid a top of 1 shot straight on. So theres that chance to top of 1 shoot. Certainly by turn 2 the Victor, strike tanker, and bombadiers can all shoot the Gate. Its a far better target than giving Vengeance to howlers, for example. Even assuming no turn 1 shot, on turn 2 victor should do 9ish through Decel between its guns and boosts. Strike tanker is another 9ish, and bombadiers 3ish. Thats about 21 of its 25 damage in a turn. Part of CID vs new factions is figuring that stuff out. In hindsight, probably a better target prioritization too, given the Gates recursion and the need for howlers to hand out greivous. Certainly better than chipping stray shots into a vengeance unit. A dead Gate turn 2-3 might tip the game.
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Post by whaleman on Apr 11, 2019 2:58:45 GMT
Fair enough my opponent shot at the Gate in other games (I used it in every list I tested) and only ever killed it one time usually because he felt there were higher priority targets. Also even without the recursion I still feel the game I posted would have gone to me as the recursion happened the turn before my opponent conceded.
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Post by charlzheimer on Jun 25, 2019 7:46:44 GMT
how mandatory would you consider the gate?
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Post by whaleman on Jun 25, 2019 18:34:23 GMT
I thunk the Infernal Gate is way to good to pass up with its final rules. The lowered summoning cost is what allows casters to summon and do things. I also think the theme force changes suit Omodamos really well since he can now bring a list of horrors and still get "free" stuff,
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