shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 29, 2019 8:35:46 GMT
Is there anything specific you'd recommend running with Ragnor?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 29, 2019 9:05:57 GMT
Is there anything specific you'd recommend running with Ragnor? I don't play Trollbloods myself, but if you could post both lists, I could give some general ideas?
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 29, 2019 9:19:44 GMT
Basically the same as what I wrote down earlier in the thread.
Helynna *Sylys -Manticore -Griffon -Chimera Sentinels+ca Invictors+ca Arcanist×2
Ragnor -Mauler -EBDT -Axer Fennblades max Fire eaters Krielstone Braylen Saxon
Braylen, Saxon and fire eaters have never pulled their weight so far. Brother's real adamant about running them though. Personally I'd rather run kriel warriors for more chaff, but not sure if they're worth it.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 29, 2019 12:21:04 GMT
Honestly, Fire Eaters are amazing into opposing infantry. Continuous Fire will give him multiple opportunities to take you out and they can get boosted rolls that might be able to crack your armour. They also threaten far with Assault. I would probably even suggest dropping Braylen and Saxon for a second unit. That, or squeeze in a Pyre Troll so he can set the Fire Eaters on fire before they charge in.
I'm assuming your Invictors are also giving him trouble, because he's primarily melee and they can skirmish all day. Do you guys play scenario? It makes it so ranged skirmish units have to commit at some point, instead of hanging back the whole time.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 29, 2019 18:18:51 GMT
We've been playing with an aberrated version of steamroller - a 5" circular zone in the middle that only beasts/jacks can contest, and two 5"x2" rectangles for infantry on each side. Couldn't be arsed to look up the correct way to set it up at the time, after looking at some batreps on the bus I realized the zones are way too small.
Anyway, even with scenario and terrain pushing agressively with Helynna's force and feating early lead to a massive attrition lead every time. Memory's kind of hazy, but I ran a 30 pt Ragnor force of trolls against Elara2 a while back on the smaller mat with no scenario, and even under stone and feat the fennblades absolutely melted to the invictors under minifeat. I think we did 2 or 3 test runs, switching sides, and the fenns consistently got slaughtered.
Hopefully I'll have time for a couple of games this weekend, need to run a lot more games before I'm confident about this. I haven't played the trolls myself for quite a while. My brother's pretty young and still barely familiar with the rules, so of course our games are still really awkward.
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mazog
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Post by mazog on Apr 29, 2019 23:51:09 GMT
Invictors are going to ruin the Fennblades day every time without food line of sight management or defense buffs. Look up three "chipped spear" formation for Fennblades, it arose in Mark II but is still good. The best thing is to put a few Fennblades aggressively forward while the rest huddle in cowardly fashion behind a forest or other LOS blocker. If they kill the few, the rest might vengeance into position to charge. If they don't, they will either have to be even further back or eat charges from the few.
The other thing is the stone scribe chronicler is one of the Fennblades best friends. Tale of mist helps a lot on the approach, and if they do have to run to engage (an awesome tactic against most gunlines, less so here) Hero's Tragedy is amazing. Once in a blue moon you will get to trigger Charge of the Trolls, but the rush is so good you will forever try to set it up again!
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mazog
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Post by mazog on Apr 30, 2019 0:21:00 GMT
If you can get a Fell Caller Hero, Saxon becomes nearly irrelevant. I will second the call to drop Braylen, she is fun but trollbloods are all about buff stacking and synergy. Under the right circumstances each Fennblade can be, without caster help, effective mat 11 and PS 15.
Oh, and get their officer, they make guns very nervous when they threat 13" on the charge.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
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Post by shmeep on Apr 30, 2019 4:07:17 GMT
Are fenns really the best answer trolls have into dawnguard? I'll try out proxying the fenns' CA next time we play, might make a difference. Not necessarily, but it depends on the caster. Ragnor can indeed be very aggressive on his feat turn, but outside that, he will still lose beasts left and right. Champions can also be effective tools, especially under Madrak 1 when it can be very difficult to get rid of them by a melee force. I've mentioned before that I'll check out the CA. Will proxy it in next game. running that much infantry support with Ragnor feels wrong, though. Shouldn't his lists be doubling down on beasts? -the krielstone CA is more or less mandatory from what I've seen, right? hard to justify not getting that +1 dmg on your stone.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 30, 2019 6:11:44 GMT
running that much infantry support with Ragnor feels wrong, though. Shouldn't his lists be doubling down on beasts? He has tools for both, though in a list that small, I wouldn't go for more than 1 infantry unit indeed. So, either Fennblades or Champions. -the krielstone CA is more or less mandatory from what I've seen, right? hard to justify not getting that +1 dmg on your stone. It kind of is. It's a common complaint of Troll players that they pay a "Krielstone Tax", but it's still too nice to pass up in most lists.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Apr 30, 2019 8:03:42 GMT
I'll probably run a heavily proxied force next game then.
50pt list off the top of my head, I'll do the exact math later:
Ragnor Mauler Axer Bouncer Pyre
Fennblades max Fire eaters ×2 Krielstone max + CA
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 30, 2019 8:30:49 GMT
I would actually go with something like this, assuming you don't play themes: conflictchamber.com/?c7200OfL9Djo0h0j0k0meziTbKTrollbloods Army - 49 / 50 points [Ragnor 1] Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Pyre Troll [8] - Troll Axer [10] - Troll Bouncer [9] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] The Champions actually benefit greatly from Ragnor's feat in combination with Sanguine Bond and Skaldi grants them Overtake so they can dig deep into the Retribution infantry. If you want to play in theme, this fits into Storm of the North. And then you could go something like this: conflictchamber.com/?c7200O_-0GfL9Djo0hiX6Gj20l0meziTbKTrollbloods Army - 50 / 50 points [Theme] Storm of the North [Ragnor 1] Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Pyre Troll [8] - Troll Axer [10] - Troll Basher [7] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5]
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mazog
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Post by mazog on May 1, 2019 1:18:04 GMT
I have cognitive dissonance seeing Ragnor lists without runebearers, otherwise I rather like yours. I also think that the Pathfinder and punishment Valka can hand out are likely worth the RB, although knocking down vast swathes of dawnguard seems good. I dig Valka, but I might have to advocate the runebearer over him here.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on May 1, 2019 5:25:42 GMT
We're playing themeless for now, and if we'll ever jump into themes it probably won't be anytime soon. The first list looks pretty neat, I'll try it out. mazog - what do you think the runebearer should replace? if the fire eaters get dropped that frees up enough points for the RB + maxing out the krielstone, but you lose out on the synergy with the pyre. Never tried skaldi, so I dunno how much of an impact he makes.
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mazog
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Post by mazog on May 1, 2019 22:19:52 GMT
Shmeep, here's a list off the top of my head. Your approximate list was more like 65 points, but I kept everything except the fire stuff. I did have to drop the krielstone unit to min, but there is one point left to play with. You COULD drop the stone scribe elder and fit in a chronicler, but you might well miss the +1 strength and other options. It does get the Fennblades to def 14 on the approach, though, which will substantially mitigate the sentinels shooting. Make sure to dig in the officer until you use his mini-feat, he has a huge target on his chest until then.
I think I would put the upkeep on Valka (or a random Fennblade) to start with, as he has a substantially better chance of getting to the enemy quickly than the beasts. Whichever, they will need dig in to not get scalpeled out.
War Room Army
Trollblood - New Army
Theme: No Theme Selected 49 / 50 Army
Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster - WB: +30 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 5 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Troll Bouncer - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5 Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 6
Trollkin Fennblades - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer - Officer & Drummer: 5 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
---
GENERATED : 05/01/2019 17:11:43 BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06
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Post by Gamingdevil on May 2, 2019 6:53:29 GMT
Your approximate list was more like 65 points, but I kept everything except the fire stuff. He didn't mention he would take the CA with the Fennblades and if he takes min Krielstone instead of max, it was actually 50 on the dot.
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