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Post by jonnyboy on Apr 18, 2019 13:47:23 GMT
I guess i meant the amazon brand tablets, they're pretty cheap. Quite nice of you to buy some surge protectors. Just make sure your phones are charged before hand or grab up a portable charger (pretty cheap too).
Cards are a personal choice now, im sure your opponent appreciates your effort. But the difficulties there really come from the user. They aren't the staple anymore and aside from some different inconveniences, better.
Hopefully your views get better as you keep playing. Easier access to the games rules and information is a positive. I myself am happy i dont need to spend 60$-$100 every time a new faction book comes out or new rule book is issued or 20 bucks for a new set of cards.
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Post by beardmonk on Apr 18, 2019 14:09:23 GMT
I actually would not be surprised if Oblivion heralds some from of "End Times" event, advancing of the timeline, catastrophic world changing events giving PP the ability to streamlining factions/forces and drop SKU's. Obviously I have no evidence or anything to base it on. But also, it wouldn't be a total shock to me if it happened.
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Post by jonnyboy on Apr 18, 2019 15:21:49 GMT
I actually would not be surprised if Oblivion heralds some from of "End Times" event, advancing of the timeline, catastrophic world changing events giving PP the ability to streamlining factions/forces and drop SKU's. Obviously I have no evidence or anything to base it on. But also, it wouldn't be a total shock to me if it happened. The CID looks more like it's setting the stage for riot quest.
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Post by netdragon on Apr 18, 2019 18:11:19 GMT
I actually would not be surprised if Oblivion heralds some from of "End Times" event, advancing of the timeline, catastrophic world changing events giving PP the ability to streamlining factions/forces and drop SKU's. Obviously I have no evidence or anything to base it on. But also, it wouldn't be a total shock to me if it happened. The CID looks more like it's setting the stage for riot quest.
Which is set in a post-apocalytical Iron Kingdoms as I understand...
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Post by jonnyboy on Apr 18, 2019 19:18:44 GMT
Yes, but in an alternate time line and a completely different game.
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Post by challenger on Apr 19, 2019 2:39:21 GMT
WMH list writing is so restrictive and bland that they may as well just prescribe lists for you when you pick certain themes. Warmachine is at a point where due to the sheer amount of models available for the big factions, having an open ended List Building policy is a nightmare for balance and new product design. We have 2 business viable options. Either we: 1.- Accept Themes as a measure of managing balance and design, and be grateful we get to keep all our models, and tolerate the List Building Restrictions. Or 2.- Open up List Building, do away with Themes, but accept that PP will have to discontinue a big chunk of options in order to manage balance and design. There is no business viable way that PP can support completely open Lists, not cut any Legacy SKUs, balance all the possible permutations, and still keep adding new releases. Free Points are nothing more than a carrot dangled in front of players in order to get the vast majority of people playing Themes. With this PP should be able to ignore balancing Non-Theme options and concentrate on a holistic "Army Level" balance instead of balancing at the model level with all its permutations. I don't believe this for a second. Infinity does just fine with sectorials and vanilla factions. Haqqislam has 61 unique troops all of which have multiple profiles with differing equipments and costs. Infinity also manages to balance the choice between sectorials and vanilla without free points.
Finally, themes like Irregulars have already existed for a long time (which is as wide open as you can get, its the whole faction almost), and now PP is doing more cross faction themes which is opening a whole other can of balancing worms.
"themes are needed to balance the game" is lazy, and was a blatant PR spin by PP being dishonest
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Post by Charistoph on Apr 19, 2019 3:51:51 GMT
Infinity does just fine with sectorials and vanilla factions. Haqqislam has 61 unique troops all of which have multiple profiles with differing equipments and costs. Infinity also manages to balance the choice between sectorials and vanilla without free points. Even then, how you build the army is vastly different between the two. At no point are you selecting a unit of up to 15 initial models in one selection with Infinity. There is also the fact that there are very very few things in Infinity which are unique to one model, including the weapons. Add to that, while the the number of models tend to be smaller in Infinity, the number of selections in WMH tend to be smaller. It really is a completely different set of balancing considerations between the two games. Finally, themes like Irregulars have already existed for a long time (which is as wide open as you can get, its the whole faction almost), and now PP is doing more cross faction themes which is opening a whole other can of balancing worms. "themes are needed to balance the game" is lazy, and was a blatant PR spin by PP being dishonest
As "wide open" as Irregulars is, that is only with the units and solos. With the Warcasters, Mercenaries are the most restricted with not a single Theme allowing them to use ANY Warcaster under the Merc "faction". Every other "faction", including Minions, has a Theme where anyone can play.
Even with that, it may not have all been PR spin. It just may have been the perspective of the design team at the time. Just because you can think of a different paradigm doesn't mean it was available to them, nor that other considerations that aren't in your paradigm are being addressed by it either.
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Post by challenger on Apr 19, 2019 4:11:15 GMT
Infinity does just fine with sectorials and vanilla factions. Haqqislam has 61 unique troops all of which have multiple profiles with differing equipments and costs. Infinity also manages to balance the choice between sectorials and vanilla without free points. Even then, how you build the army is vastly different between the two. At no point are you selecting a unit of up to 15 initial models in one selection with Infinity. There is also the fact that there are very very few things in Infinity which are unique to one model, including the weapons. Add to that, while the the number of models tend to be smaller in Infinity, the number of selections in WMH tend to be smaller. It really is a completely different set of balancing considerations between the two games. Finally, themes like Irregulars have already existed for a long time (which is as wide open as you can get, its the whole faction almost), and now PP is doing more cross faction themes which is opening a whole other can of balancing worms. "themes are needed to balance the game" is lazy, and was a blatant PR spin by PP being dishonest
As "wide open" as Irregulars is, that is only with the units and solos. With the Warcasters, Mercenaries are the most restricted with not a single Theme allowing them to use ANY Warcaster under the Merc "faction". Every other "faction", including Minions, has a Theme where anyone can play.
Even with that, it may not have all been PR spin. It just may have been the perspective of the design team at the time. Just because you can think of a different paradigm doesn't mean it was available to them, nor that other considerations that aren't in your paradigm are being addressed by it either.
the only restrictions iirc on irregulars for warcaster and battelgroup is you can't play the cephalyx spider people. That still leaves 13 warcasters (out of 15). you can also take most of the key pieces of the various other merc themes in Irregulars. it's crazy how wide open it is, it extends far beyond "Just with units and solos". the only meaningful restriction moving forwards is the fact it won't have archons (because they are non character)
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Apr 19, 2019 5:32:29 GMT
Well hold on now, there are other restrictions that come with mercs. Such as no Thamarite or Morrowan could work together prior to this CID, dwarf jacks are exclusive (essentially) to three casters so limitations apply there. There's the Cephalyx side faction not available, as you mentioned, and of course you also don't have a few of the non-character solos. It should also be noted, much to my dismay, that many times in order to say you're "playing mercs" really means you're playing a merc caster, with other faction's things... which usually turn out to be better then just straight merc stuff. Such as Kingmaker, Resistance, Pirates, Flames, and to a much lesser extent Cephalyx. Which those out of faction toys are not included either in the generic merc theme. Also add in the recent change where it's no longer able to earn 4 free solos but the regular 3... and well... it has restrictions all it's own. I will say it is more open esc then a lot of themes out there, but it doesn't work really because Irregulars is kinda a weird exception, rather than a rule.
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Post by Charistoph on Apr 19, 2019 5:45:22 GMT
the only restrictions iirc on irregulars for warcaster and battelgroup is you can't play the cephalyx spider people. That still leaves 13 warcasters (out of 15). you can also take most of the key pieces of the various other merc themes in Irregulars. it's crazy how wide open it is, it extends far beyond "Just with units and solos". the only meaningful restriction moving forwards is the fact it won't have archons (because they are non character) Correct, Cephalyx cannot be taken in Irregulars. However, for Themes for every other Faction (except in Minions), being able to take ANY of the Warcasters/Warlocks is the general standard, not the exception. Mercenaries is the only "faction" where NONE of the Themes are all-inclusive. Minions at least have Will Work For Food.
Nor does Irregulars take most of the key pieces of the other Merc Themes, aside from Hammer Strike (who have limited Solo opportunities) and Talion (which doesn't punish Infantry spam as much as Irregulars). You can't take the Steelhead Arcanist and Gunner for Soldiers of Fortune (at least, not yet), nor are the Trenchers from Kingmakers and Resistance available in Irregulars, to say nothing of the afore-referenced Operating Theater. With the latest change to it, going with an Infantry focus is actually counter-productive in Irregulars as you can generally get more out of it with any of the other Themes and leaving Irregulars as the 'Jack Theme with slightly less punishment for going Infantry than the others.
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Post by challenger on Apr 19, 2019 8:46:32 GMT
Well hold on now, there are other restrictions that come with mercs. Such as no Thamarite or Morrowan could work together prior to this CID, dwarf jacks are exclusive (essentially) to three casters so limitations apply there. There's the Cephalyx side faction not available, as you mentioned, and of course you also don't have a few of the non-character solos. It should also be noted, much to my dismay, that many times in order to say you're "playing mercs" really means you're playing a merc caster, with other faction's things... which usually turn out to be better then just straight merc stuff. Such as Kingmaker, Resistance, Pirates, Flames, and to a much lesser extent Cephalyx. Which those out of faction toys are not included either in the generic merc theme. Also add in the recent change where it's no longer able to earn 4 free solos but the regular 3... and well... it has restrictions all it's own. I will say it is more open esc then a lot of themes out there, but it doesn't work really because Irregulars is kinda a weird exception, rather than a rule. Those restrictions pale in comparison to other factions and themes. Some themes have literally only 3 units in them. You're grasping at straws to defend a point im not making ,(that mercs have zero drawbacks) My point is the fact irregulars *exists* with the massive variety of models it jas access to (i dare you to find a theme with as few excluded models in the entire game) without breaking the game disproves PPs "themes are necessary to balance a bigger game" lie
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Apr 19, 2019 8:50:16 GMT
IMO themes have never been there for balance or fluff. Its there for handling the models bloat and to sell more models.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 20, 2019 4:24:21 GMT
My point is the fact irregulars *exists* with the massive variety of models it jas access to (i dare you to find a theme with as few excluded models in the entire game) without breaking the game disproves PPs "themes are necessary to balance a bigger game" lie Your rigor for what constitutes valid proof is lax. By that logic everyone should have access to Lord of the Feast.
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Post by mcdermott on Apr 20, 2019 6:10:45 GMT
IMO themes have never been there for balance or fluff. Its there for handling the models bloat and to sell more models. Really? Cause its always always always easier to balance fewer model interactions than more
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smoth
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by smoth on Apr 20, 2019 19:58:04 GMT
I don't think warma is that huge, 40k/aos are much larger ranges. I DO think that doing a new faction a year is stupid and probably a bigger issue.come off it.. I think things like kosites SHOULD be removed and maybe add an attachment or theme that gives wgi similar(limited numbers and ambush). Kossites are rubbish models. There are other models like say nyss hunters, bogg troggs that need to go. I am sure there are others... but off my head> most of the old metals should be retired. IMO themes have never been there for balance or fluff. Its there for handling the models bloat and to sell more models. Really? Cause its always always always easier to balance fewer model interactions than more "faction a year"
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