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Post by greytemplar on Mar 6, 2019 1:14:00 GMT
Feora3 very good, her only problem is that she has to expose herself. I really feel like the Initiates bumped her up a ton. Madelyn and Initiates makes her pretty tough. Faithful Masses loves a caster like her, especially when Idrians are +4/+4 against a prey target. Then the damage swing on her heavies is absurd and probably not necessary, but fun to think about. Indeed. They are probably an important piece for her. And maybe a Warder too.
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Post by paradox on Mar 6, 2019 2:37:51 GMT
Funny enough, I have a Tristan2 list that I want to try out. I had a version of it for the BE CID, but did not het to try it with him (it was fine with Sevy1 ). So now that we have Sev0, heres the revision. Theme: The Creator's Might 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Stockpile - Steamroller Objective Sovereign Tristan Durant - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 0 - Guardian - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Reckoner - PC: 16 - Dervish - PC: 7 Vessel of Judgment - PC: 18 Vessel of Judgment - PC: 18 The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Scrutator Potentate Severius - PC: 0 - Dervish - PC: 7 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 I guess you hope those guns and healing are enough? Theres some melee to back it up if someone runs to engage. Played this into Irusk2 Iron Fangs. Lost 17-12 bottom of 7. It was pretty terrible, though. Man, Tristan2 is pretty garbage.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Mar 6, 2019 19:58:23 GMT
The list itself looks great to clear troops, especially Grave Diggers. It would be fantastic if Field Marshals also worked on battle engines. I really like the 3d3 healing every round. With such a small battlegroup, it feels like the feat is really "cast one free spell" which sort of sucks.
What sort of problems did you find with the list?
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 7, 2019 5:30:01 GMT
I was thinking that this could be an interesting list for our resident fire lord. conflictchamber.com/?c2201b_-0dfZgSg9melM9x9x3z3z303G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Creator's Might [Malekus 1] Malekus, the Burning Truth [+30] - Eye of Truth [20] - Revelator [37] - Hierophant [0(3)] Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)] - Repenter [8] - Repenter [8] Vassal of Menoth [3] Vassal of Menoth [3] Choir of Menoth (max) [6] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Hard to justify the revalator though when it could be a judicator+3 wracks. Played the above into the dreamer. Lost on scenario with my inability to deal with gremlins. With so few attacks I had to use them all to deal with beasts and never had enough left over to devote to clearing the little buggers. Having to use the revelator shots to clear free solos feels bad.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Mar 7, 2019 15:39:48 GMT
I feel like it's not worth it until it is. RAT 6 against DEF 13 means you can expect to kill 1.5 a round with Open Fire at 14" away. Revelator being placed as central as possible should be able to hit them no matter where they go to contest. Those guns probably won't do anything major to a heavy, so they don't seem necessarily wasted but I haven't played the match up. Dreamer is just a strong scenario/attrition caster and Creator's Might lacks a lot of Scenario play.
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Post by paradox on Mar 7, 2019 16:56:00 GMT
The list itself looks great to clear troops, especially Grave Diggers. It would be fantastic if Field Marshals also worked on battle engines. I really like the 3d3 healing every round. With such a small battlegroup, it feels like the feat is really "cast one free spell" which sort of sucks. What sort of problems did you find with the list? Not enough chaff to engage troopswarms. Low volume and unboostable bounces makes any sort of ARM buff tough to overcome. 4d3 bounces were not enough to attrition stuff down. The BG struggles with terrain, no speed bumps. The healing was cute, and let some stuff live a real long time, making the game very grindy. But it also means the opponent can just focus on killing whole models. Vs low count, theres little downside to that. Also, it just feels like Amon is flat better at it.
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 7, 2019 20:10:41 GMT
I feel like it's not worth it until it is. RAT 6 against DEF 13 means you can expect to kill 1.5 a round with Open Fire at 14" away. Revelator being placed as central as possible should be able to hit them no matter where they go to contest. Those guns probably won't do anything major to a heavy, so they don't seem necessarily wasted but I haven't played the match up. Dreamer is just a strong scenario/attrition caster and Creator's Might lacks a lot of Scenario play. You don't find that 2x pow 18 and 2x pow 15 guns do work against heavies? With three boosts that can remove a heavy per turn until the deathknell gets enough corpses to keep more models in its buff range.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Mar 7, 2019 23:45:47 GMT
The POW 18s definitely. The POW 15s can do work with boosts but if its a choice between an extra 3 damage or a VP I'll take the VP. Maybe shooting with the big guns first and seeing how much damage they do would work better, its more likely a case by case basis.
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Post by corvidae on Mar 10, 2019 9:11:55 GMT
The more I read about our "worst casters" the more determined I become to play them...anyone else?
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Post by gobber on Mar 10, 2019 15:26:59 GMT
It's fun to try to get odd stuff to work. I'll eventually get around to running this weirdness:
Malekus (no theme) -Hand of Judgment -Eye of Truth Gastonne -Blockader Thorn Gun Mages Thorn Gun Mages Initiates of the Order of the Wall Fistmonk Wrack
HoJ, EoT, and Malekus feat all buff the Blockader sprays and Thorns' shooting. It'll get overwhelmed on scenario, but has some fun tricks: Scourge+sprays are a solid assassination vector; ps 14-16 shots+4d6 can pop casters through focus. Colossals will get vaporized; the thorns alone average 45 damage against a stormwall while the battlegroup can contribute another 60something damage. Heavy infantry do not like boosted sprays or boosted pow 12/16 shots from thorns, nor do they appreciate automatic boosted fire damage rolls if they survive.
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Mar 11, 2019 6:07:26 GMT
That malekus list looks fun, its great to try and find a list that's kind of worth going themeless for.
I'll be taking this to the shop this week, as an attempt to get my repenters off the shelf...
-------------------- War Room Army Theme: The Creator's Might
Malekus, the Burning Truth - WJ: +30 - Judicator - PC: 34 (Battlegroup Points Used: 30) - Eye of Truth - PC: 20
Scrutator Potentate Severius - PC: 0 - Repenter - PC: 8 - Repenter - PC: 8 Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 0 - Repenter - PC: 8 - Repenter - PC: 8 Exemplar Warder Elias Gade - PC: 0 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 --------------------
Are there any other options for repenter spam?
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Mar 11, 2019 15:08:27 GMT
Feora3 can do Repenter spam. She really needs the shield guards after she pops feat, though, but it can be done.
We've been talking a lot about Casters that are our worst, but I also wonder about other models. Vanquishers would love Malekus because of Open Fire, but I can also see potential with a few casters if Sev0 is included unless you run Sev1. POW 17 bombs that just cause fire on a decent sized plate are pretty nice and 2 Vanquishers is somehow less points than a Revelator but you also lose some range and power. You do gain threat vectors.
Maybe Vanquishers and Feora2 could do something, really drive in the worst models together. They lvoe escort and she loves them for the feat. I also don't feel that an infantry screen is necessary when you blow up their tarpit. Or Faithful Masses to give them a scary melee attack when it's time to close the lines.
I can sort of see running two Vanquishers with Amon to have some heavy fire support but it's way expensive.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Mar 16, 2019 20:57:53 GMT
Just finished playing the following:
Malekus - Faithful Masses Heirophant Eye of Truth Revelator min Choir Mechanik x2 Wrack Max Zealots + UA SUnburst crew x2 Initiates of the Order of the Wall Thorn Gun Mages x2
vs
Heretic - Bump Clockatrice Cage Rager Gorehound Crabbits max Neigh SLayers + UA (CiD) max Piggybacks + UA (CiD) min Dread Rots min Hollowmen + UA + Holden Death Knell Longfellow Cask Imps
Super-long game, went to top of 6 when I won on scenario (would have won on assassination anyways, he only had Heretic and Gorehound left). Overall, I really like 90% of the list with Malekus (Initiates did nothing, so not sure how I feel about them). Biggest weakness is low RAT, which almost ruined the feat turn (planned for 2 Thorn Gun Mages, Malekus, and about 7 Zealots to kill the Clockatrice, allowing Eye to kill the cage rager, and then almost everything missed. It was bad). But man, Thorn Gun Mages are such a wonderful tool for Malekus. Decent threat on feat turn, and handy tool box outside of feat.
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Mar 17, 2019 8:25:12 GMT
How did you find the zealots? Could Malekus work in FM with zealots and thorn gun mages?
Edit: I just noticed that your list was already in FM, but FYI war room shouldn't (i) count thorn towards free cards unless you have the priest and (ii) let you take a second unit of thorn in the first place.
Maybe the initiates don't do much for that list, but IMO they are amazing overall. I find them to be very effective at soaking up my opponent's clock. I would always treat them as a single model by running them as a group and CMA when attacking, which takes very little time, but planning to remove them efficiently takes time.
Position wise, they should be doing one (or two) of three things: - contesting - blocking landing zones for charges - being a ready shield guard for your key pieces
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 17, 2019 9:20:26 GMT
Initiates will be worth their weight in gold the moment you face a more shooting-oriented army, or just need to stop nasties like Eiryss shooting your EoT or Gorman targetting the Revelator. Then this 0pts investment may prove to be game-changing (not to mention them sitting next to Malekus and providing him with 3 Shield Guards just stops mosts oponnents thinking about a ranged assassination altogether).
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