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Post by phantomsig on Mar 4, 2019 1:17:17 GMT
Hi all,
As a circle player, it gives me great joy when a ravager tanks attack after attack from a colossal org garg, but it really does not feel reasonable. Should melee attacks from Colossal's ignore tough?
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Post by mydnight on Mar 4, 2019 3:03:50 GMT
There are too many things that already ignore tough.
I agree with the sentiment but it would lead to floodgate arguments.
High power attacks already ignores arm. We don't need to double count it by letting it ignore tough, which is effectively a 'ward save'. Think of it as tough models being more likely to survive glancing blows.
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Post by gedditoffme on Mar 4, 2019 7:27:26 GMT
I’m wondering what problem we’re trying to fix here. Tough is one of the few defenses for infantry against battlegroup or high pow shots.
If trying to imagine: maybe the trolls arm is ripped off and left for dead in a pile of rubble unnoticed. He’ll regenerate and get himself unstuck to escape knockdown then be back.
High pow hits aren’t disintegratin the target, shown by slightly weaker hits failing to kill. They’re doing enough damage to kill, plus a few pts of overkill.
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Post by phantomsig on Mar 4, 2019 8:29:31 GMT
More of a discussion than a problem The concept I get. It's the outliers (and yes the fact that they are outliers mean its not a problem) of a single tough model taking three colossal hits in a row that im curious about. I feel its a negative experience for the controller of the colossal/garg.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Mar 4, 2019 10:22:39 GMT
I can see them all get the good ole treewhack ability warhammer has (used to have?). When an enemy of that size forces his foot upon your person like that, it doesn't really matter how tough you are. The archangel has consume to represent such an effect.
I guess it should cost a focus / generate a fury to apply the effect to it's attacks? That way it's a choice of quality over quantity? As such, it shouldn't effect sweeps.
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 4, 2019 13:07:38 GMT
I'd rather they got rid of tough altogether, giving units things like extra HP/ARM or rapid healing instead. There just seems to be a weird arms race where everyone gets no knockdown tough but also gets anti-Tough.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 4, 2019 14:16:29 GMT
Colossals and Gargantuans are already able to making Sweep attack, which able to mop up a bunch of troopers. That would give them enough anti-trooper capability. Tough makes the troopers withstand the attack, but attacking a bunch of troopers at once is a trial even for Tough troopers.
So I don't think that it seems necessary. I don't think that give the advantage to the huge base seems required either, for they are already doing well on their own.
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Post by greytemplar on Mar 4, 2019 16:28:34 GMT
Tough has been nerfed enough. It’s already turned off by being knocked down, which passing a tough check does naturally, and got changed to 5+.
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Post by onijet01 on Mar 4, 2019 17:39:26 GMT
Tough has been nerfed enough. It’s already turned off by being knocked down, which passing a tough check does naturally, and got changed to 5+. Actually tough in mkii was always a five up. Boomhowler, dock killingsworth and a few other select cases could do a 4+ tough effect. Tough in mkiii is just more likited in application. No healing affects tough. Knock down shuts it off as you stated. Snipper and deadly shots ignore it Anitomical percision ignores it. To its credit in mkiii tough now triggers on disabled step vs boxed step so it works against most rfp abilities as a last stitch survival tech
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Post by sgregorbmmd on Mar 4, 2019 22:37:17 GMT
I’d prefer it if they had some way of dealing with 3-foot walls blocking their way
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 5, 2019 7:55:12 GMT
Tough has been nerfed enough. It’s already turned off by being knocked down, which passing a tough check does naturally, and got changed to 5+. Actually tough in mkii was always a five up. Boomhowler, dock killingsworth and a few other select cases could do a 4+ tough effect. Tough in mkiii is just more likited in application. No healing affects tough. Knock down shuts it off as you stated. Snipper and deadly shots ignore it Anitomical percision ignores it. To its credit in mkiii tough now triggers on disabled step vs boxed step so it works against most rfp abilities as a last stitch survival tech Tough in MKII already triggers on disabled. Thats not changed since.
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Mar 5, 2019 10:36:01 GMT
I also understand the feelings behind the idea, but I don't think some kind of "instant death" rule would really add to the game. Not in an age of streamlining rules.
I would like to see gargossals be allowed to trample through medium bases, though.
On the subject of quirky rules, models with crippled movement should not be allowed to use bounding leap (effing stalkers).
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Post by P'tit Nico on Mar 5, 2019 12:08:10 GMT
On the subject of quirky rules, models with crippled movement should not be allowed to use bounding leap (effing stalkers). Yeah, back in mk2, both Bounding Leap and Jump had the limitation "Any effects that pervent charging also prevent this model from using Jump". In mk3, this sentence disappeared from Bounding Leap.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 6, 2019 14:42:27 GMT
On the subject of quirky rules, models with crippled movement should not be allowed to use bounding leap (effing stalkers). Yeah, back in mk2, both Bounding Leap and Jump had the limitation "Any effects that pervent charging also prevent this model from using Jump". In mk3, this sentence disappeared from Bounding Leap. To be fair, a crippled cortex already means they can't leap. Having it rely on 2 systems would be rather brutal, for Stalkers in particular as they literally lose 2 systems whenever they get hit.
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